There are two types of lessons in life: the ones we learn growing up: manners really do go a long way, don’t eat yellow snow—it won’t taste good and will probably give you a belly ache—and 1 + 1 =2.

And the other ones—the plethora of other lessons that our parents and loved ones try to pass on, but our inner rebels refuse to play student.

Things like, you don’t have to wear shin pads to play hockey—but if you don’t and you get hit, you’re gonna know about it. Or that, yes, your twenty-one-year-old self can drink a liter of Southern Comfort in one evening, but you can be assured that you’ll puke for a week and will probably need to see a doctor—was it just me who learned that one?

Moving on… These “other” lessons are the kinds of lessons our families try to impart on us. But more often than not, we’re too stubborn to listen to their advice. Instead we have to learn through the classic “school of hard knocks.”

For the vast majority of people, taking on debt is one of those lessons.

Growing up, my mother was militant with money. She was necessarily frugal but that ensured we had luxuries like a holiday every year. Right from first toddling, I learned a money mantra: save a third, spend a third, use a third. But it didn’t stick. Sure I knew the principle of good money management, but unfortunately, the society I grew up in, and worse, the society my child is growing up in, doesn’t foster good money-management skills.

This isn’t a political statement, it’s a personal observation.

For the kids who want an education all the way up to college, we saddle them with tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars’ worth of debt. Society has ushered in a materialistic culture where we need the latest sneakers now, now, now. Oh, and that shiny gadget that costs five hundred dollars is a must, even if you don’t have the cash in the bank. Who cares? Just slap it on your plastic and deal with it next month. That’s future-you’s problem. Present-you wants the “thing.”

Somewhere along the lines, something went very wrong.

I know it did for me. I learned the hard way. Education debts piled on top of a car loan, which piled on top of fertility treatment debt. When you’re in a $40,000 hole, that career author dream feels really far away. And realistically, it is.

Career authors know that in order to leave their day jobs they have to reduce their outgoing expenditure as much as possible.

If you owe tens of thousands of dollars, then you’re going to have to pay off hundreds of dollars a month.

Let’s say you take home $2,000 per month. Your bills for rent, food, and the gym, etc., come to $1,200 a month. But you have debt, and that debt is costing you $800 a month. In this situation, before you could even consider leaving your job, you’d need to consistently earn $2,000 from your author business each month. That’s at a minimum. There’s no change in there, no wiggle room for emergencies or book covers that need designing.

If you left your day job in that kind of financial state, you’d be placing extreme pressure on your creative business to earn money. Earning that kind of cash instantly as an author is a tough job for anyone starting out.

Let’s flip this on its head. What if you didn’t have debt? Instead of needing to earn $2,000 from your writing to cover your bills and debt, if you had no debt, then in that situation, you’d only need to earn $1,200. That’s a helluva lot easier to achieve than $2,000 a month. It’s less pressure, more wiggle room, and no stress because you don’t owe anyone anything.

The problem is, debt is so very easy to accrue.

Personal debt

Ever thought, “Oh, I’ll just book the family holiday and put it on the credit card and we’ll pay it off before we go?”

I know so many people who’ve done this, and only a small percentage pay it off before they travel. Why? Because they forgot they needed “spending money” for the actual holiday. So, they frantically save spending money, but fate gives them a flat tire. Now, the $100 they scraped together for the flights has to be spent on new tires, and on it goes.

How many of us have had our car spontaneously break and need a new clutch? Who’s had their boiler go pop at Christmas? And you can be assured that the month the boiler goes is the month your child’s feet grow two sizes and their trousers become ankle-swingers. Before you know it, the holiday debt is suddenly holiday debt, plus clutch debt plus boiler debt, plus, plus, plus.

Paying it off isn’t just difficult, it feels impossible.

Company debt

Writers are in the fortunate position of not needing much overhead to set up and run a business.

You need your brain and creativity—both free. You need some kind of writing device, preferably digital—okay, not free, but you can buy cheap computers these days or secondhand ones for less. Or, failing both of those options, go to your local library and use their computer for free. There are some publishing costs along the way, but for the most part, we’re pretty lucky when it comes to both start-up and running costs.

Zach Bohannon tells an awesome story about his friend who launched a coffee business and had to shell out $25,000 on equipment and supplies before he could sell his first bean. I spent less than $700 on publishing my first book. It’s a colossal difference.

The point is, if you don’t have to take on debt to start your business, why would you?

Here’s what debt is: it’s a virus, an insidious parasite that burrows into your business, eating it cell by cell until there’s nothing left but a shattered dream of what could’ve been.

Career authors know two things.

1. You don’t leave your day job until you’re debt-free or in a stable financial situation.
2. You don’t put your business in debt unless it is 100% unavoidable and necessary for its survival.

Above all else in this book, this lesson is the most important.

Career authors are here for the long term. This isn’t a career of debt. You don’t build a career by digging a financial hole. Career authors take their time growing their business. They save up for the big spend, buy only what they need, and when they do, they do it with hard-earned cash. Career authors don’t put covers on credit cards, they don’t borrow money to pay for edits. They save up, plan for the outlay of cash, and make sure they stay in the black.

To read more, click the button below.

Read Personal Finance

The post Personal Finance for Indie Authors in 2021 appeared first on Sacha Black.

Mindset is one of the hardest elements of your business to get right. When I reached the end of my first year of self-employment and reviewed the lessons I’d learned, I was shocked to find that half of them were mindset related.

Thinking about it, it makes sense. You have to get your mindset right in order to work through the grueling “day job,” but of your journey. But once you’ve quit, the work on your mindset doesn’t stop because you’ve achieved full-time status. If anything, the opposite is true. Working on your mindset becomes even more important. Vital even.

When you’re going solo, it’s so easy to let the insidious doubt-devil creep into the corners of your mind. It’s a parasite, a persistent virus that will eat you up from the inside out. The only way to combat it is to constantly work on your mindset. A career author knows this.

Carol Dweck is famed for her work on fixed and growth mindset. She explains that a person will have one mindset or the other: fixed or growth. Those with a fixed mindset view intelligence as static. They tend to avoid challenges, give up easily, see putting in the effort as pointless and ignore useful, but critical feedback. The result of this mindset is that many people plateau or fail to achieve their full potential. Another result is that they will often see the world from a deterministic bent.

For an author with a fixed mindset, reading a bad review first thing in the morning could ruin their day and knock them off course. Having a bad sales day could result in them not bothering to write for the rest of the week because, “What’s the point if I can’t sell books anyway?”

A growth mindset then, is the exact opposite. They see intelligence as flexible, something to be grown. They embrace challenges and persist despite the setbacks. They see effort as a mechanism to aid them in their goals, they learn from criticism, and I’m sure you can see where this is going. The result is that they achieve or even overachieve their goals, and they also have a greater sense of free will.

For an author with a growth mindset, reading that same bad review might spur them on to prove the reviewer wrong, or to write a better book next time, or they may just view the reviewer as one person with one opinion. That bad sales day? No bother, they choose to work harder on their ads. They research a new type of ad and examine the ads they have running to see if they can make them more effective.

Having read both of those, I’m sure you recognize which mindset a career author has.

The successful leaders in the world all have growth mindsets, they embrace the challenges life throws at them and happily put in the effort to grow and learn and get better.

No one’s saying this is easy, no one is expecting you to crack this mindset from day one. And I’m certainly not expecting you to have your mindset mastered day in, day out. We all have bad days, it’s okay to have them. And just because you do have it mastered most of the time, that doesn’t mean that a bad review won’t punch you in the feels and knock you off course for a few days. It will, and you’ll have to pull yourself back up again.

Career authors aren’t cyborgs. It’s okay to feel like poop on occasion, and hey, if you need a day to wallow, fill your boots.

What matters is how you pick yourself back up and soldier on. What matters are the choices you make following those setbacks. That’s the difference between having a fixed mindset and a growth mindset; it’s the difference between career authors and amateurs. Career authors might allow themselves a bad day or two, but they don’t let bad reviews take over their lives or stop them from writing. They rebel against the wallowing, they stand up to their fixed mindset, and they fight on.

It’s easy to look at the successful indie authors and think their success came overnight. It didn’t.

Okay, everyone can name the odd lightning flash who wrote a book in a month and earned six figures. But 99% of indies didn’t.

For the rest of the world, they wrote crappy books and edited them, edited them again, and published, published, published. They had bad days, bad reviews, bad launches, and bad series, and they carried on anyway. They faced plot problems, financial difficulties, and a lack of support from loved ones, and guess what? They carried on anyway.

Career authors look at their weaknesses and embrace them, choosing not to be crushed by problems but to seek help, learn more, and improve. Career authors don’t seek approval from others, they prioritize growth and learning instead. They also focus on the process and not the end result. Yes, we want to hold the physical book in our hands, but once you’ve got it, that’s it, the project is over and finishing one book doesn’t create an author career.

The process is your foundation. A solid process that you can repeat enables you to write book after book, and that creates an author career.

This mindset stuff is hard. None of us get it right 100% of the time. Even industry giants like Stephen King and Judy Blume, who are decades into their writing careers, still talk about doubt and the fear of editorial criticism. It’s natural.

But as you face these obstacles, you have a choice. Career authors choose to embrace the criticism, embrace the hard slog of editing, and use it to improve their craft and business. That’s what builds sustainability in your writing business.

Being a career author isn’t easy, and as much as I hate to say it, it will continue to be challenging. But that’s why having a growth mindset is so essential, because when you have one, you carry on despite the obstacles.

The only person in the way of your goals is you.

A career author knows this and gets out of their own way. They choose to have a growth mindset because as much as they know the hard days will come, they also know they’ll fight through them. They see the obstacles, setbacks, and mistakes as lessons learned and opportunities for growth.

Which mindset are you going to choose?

Find out more about the book by clicking the button below.

read rebel mindset here

The post Growth Mindset for Indie Authors in 2021 appeared first on Sacha Black.

We talk about a new book we’ve cowritten that focuses on the good stuff: money. I go deep and get personal in this book with my experiences of debt and money and the lessons I’ve learned that took me from aspiring writer to full-time business woman.

Read the Book: 9 Things Career Authors Don’t Do: Personal Finance

Read the rest of the series: http://getbook.at/9thingsseries

The post 051 – Personal Finance for Writers with J Thorn and Sacha Black appeared first on Sacha Black.

Hello Rebels, welcome to The Rebel Author Podcast episode 49. We are rocking closer and closer to the 1 year mark. I’ll be doing a few things to celebrate but first to today’s episode…I’m talking to Jennie Nash all about how to create an author side hustle and author coaching. I adored talking to Jennie she’s so personable, engaging and fascinating to talk to. So I hope you enjoy this episode.

This week’s questions is:

If you could do anything as a side hustle, what would it be?

***

Find out more about our guest Jennie Nash:

If you want to be a book coach, you can find out more about Jennie’s courses and free information here: bookcoaches.com/abc

If you’re a writer and would like to be matched with a coach, then visit here: authoraccelerator.com

***

Book recommendation of the week is: How to Write a Series by Sara Rosett

• Kobo
• Apple
• Amazon UK
• Amazon USA

Don’t forget The Anatomy of Prose is now live, you can get it in ebook, paperback or hardback now.

Click the link here. Order the Workbook here. 

Listener Rebel of the Week is Jasmine Arch

If you’d like to be a Rebel of the week please do send in your story, it can be any kind of rebellion. You can email your rebel story to rebelauthorpodcast@gmail.com or tweet me @rebelauthorpod

***

Two new patrons this week, welcome and thank you to Denise Berndt and Rae Tauranga. A huge thank you also to all my current patrons for the ongoing support. 

If you’d like to support the show, and get access to all the bonus essays, posts and content, you can from as little as $2 a month by visiting: www.patreon.com/sachablack

Sponsor of the show this week is ProWritingAid

Find out more about ProWritingAid software using my link here.

Use my discount code: REBEL25

Connect with ProWritingAid on social media:

Twitter

Facebook

Instagram

Please note I do use affiliate links, I earn a small commission when you purchase something using these links at no additional cost to you.

The post 049 How to Create an Author Side Hustle with Jennie Nash appeared first on Sacha Black.

Hello Rebels, welcome to The Rebel Author Podcast episode 38. I’m talking to an extra special guest this week, my dad, Steven de Koenigswarter. In a twist to the show, I’ve been wanting to speak to successful entrepreneurs in a variety of industries to see what lessons I can pull from them into the writing industry. If you listen to nothing else, then make sure you listen to his rebel story at the end, it’s quite the plot twist.

Episode Show Notes – How to Build a 7-Figure Company

This week’s questions is:

If you couldn’t be a writer, what would you be?

Find out more about our guest Steven de Koenigswarter on:

His website: Thehealthfactory.com

His informational website: Nano-mineralwater.com

Facebook THF: https://www.facebook.com/thfnederland/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/steven.dekoenigswarter/

Company Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehealthfactory_/

Don’t forget The Anatomy of Prose is now live, you can get it in ebook, paperback or hardback now.

Click the link here.

Order the Workbook here. 

Book recommendation: Miso Paper for Archer and Olive journals www.misopaper.com

My geometric wall paint in my office

Listener Rebel of the Week is S. M. Mitchell

If you’d like to be a Rebel of the week please do send in your story, it can be any kind of rebellion. You can email your rebel story to rebelauthorpodcast@gmail.com or tweet me @rebelauthorpod

Thank you to all patrons for the support. If you’d like to support the show, and get access to all the bonus essays, posts and content, you can from as little as $2 a month by visiting: www.patreon.com/sachablack

The post 038 How to Build a 7-Figure Company with Steven de Koenigswarter appeared first on Sacha Black.

I spent a long time thinking I’d never be able to leave my job, so it’s a bizarre feeling to sit here and write a post about my one year anniversary of having done just that. Here are 10 lessons from one year of writing full-time.

For a long time I carried a Post-it in my wallet. An affirmation of sorts, one I looked at multiple times a day. Every time I bought a coffee or paid for something I’d see the note and run the words through my head like a mantra. It helped keep me going when times were dark and the desperation to leave the day job was strong.

Originally, I thought I’d leave work this year: 2020. Instead, I left last year and 2020 actually sees me celebrating my one year anniversary of working for myself.

Here are some of the reflections I’ve made as I look back at the last year.

10 Lessons from One Year of Writing Full-Time: the income 

In my first year, I didn’t care what I earned. My sole goal was to survive. Which meant, not having to go back to a day job, not getting into debt and being able to pay all my bills. Well I survived, I didn’t have to go back to my day job and I didn’t get into debt, unless you count the several hundred thousand pounds I spent on buying a house this week.

On reflection, I think not having some kind of monetary aim was a mistake. It meant I didn’t focus on it and therefore didn’t try to earn anything more than whatever came to me. I coasted because I didn’t know better.  

One revenue stream in particular is responsible for 49% of my income. I’d like to change that to ensure that there’s a more of a balance across all my streams.

In my first year, my income streams include: book sales, ALLi work, freelance work, patreon, merchandise, affiliate income, and editing. 

In the next year, I want to add audiobooks and courses to my income streams as well as speaking and an investment portfolio. Oh, and a hard financial goal. I’d love to surpass my old job income, but whether I manage that in the coming year or the next one remains to be seen.

Takeaway 1: set income goals, pay attention to your finances and push for what you want to achieve.

10 Lessons from One Year of Writing Full-Time: business basics

For a while, you can coast along doing the fun stuff. You can make shit up, play god and destroy your protagonist’s life. But eventually, you’re going to have to buckle down and build a structure for yourself in your business.

It’s the bit most of us don’t enjoy. 

• You need a mailing list. 
• You need an autoresponder. And you need to review and update it every time you create something new.
• You need a reader magnet.
• You need accounting software.
• You need a file naming structure.
• You need a website. Maybe even to sell direct.
• You need a list of all your assets and all their key information. 
• You need a system and process for writing books. It’s no good drifting aimlessly, if you want a career out of this, you need a process to ensure you finish books.

I could go on.

But the point is, there’s only so long you can coast doing the good stuff and ignoring the business bits. In reflecting on my first year, I’ve realised I’m not baaaaad at the business basics, but there’s definitely stuff I’ve neglected. I’m going to end this lesson with an analogy.

You can’t build a house without foundations. If you do, that shits gonna fall down hard at some point.

The same goes for your business.

You can’t build a business without the basics.  

Takeaway 2: don’t forget the business basics. Write a task list and even if you attack them 1 a month over the course of a year, make sure you do so your business is built on solid foundations.

10 Lessons from One Year of Writing Full-Time: details matter

If you’re not a detailed person—and I’m really not—then this is one of the harder lessons to learn. Harder because if you don’t keep track of the details, it’s gon’ cost you money! A crap ton of money.

Here’s an example. This very morning. My first hardback book arrived. I’ve been hankering after hardbacks for a while. I know as a good publisher, it’s something I should have done ages ago. But money, time, and priorities got in the way.

It arrived this morning, and it’s beautiful. I mean truly. But there was something wrong. There was no text printed on the spine. Of course, I’d chosen the hardback because I wanted text printed on the spine. But idiot me didn’t check the details. I assumed they’d take the text on the spine and print it. Alas not. So now I’ve ordered a proof hardback with rush delivery and it’s wrong. Of course, that is the point of proof copies. But also—ugh. While this one error has only cost me £20, when you add them all up over time the mistakes cost.

Here’s another example, my mailing list costs me £60 plus a month. If I’d taken the time to look at the details of price comparisons, I’d have realised sooner that I could swap providers and potentially save myself over £40 a month while retaining all the same functions.

I don’t want to make excuses, but when you’re tired and exhausted, you tend to favor your strengths and not your weaknesses. Working on your weaknesses is hard, it’s tiring. But as a good business person, as a good publisher, you gotta do the hard work.

Details matter guys.

Maybe your weakness isn’t details, it’s something else. Maybe you’re not a strategic thinker, maybe you’re not a goals person. Whatever your weakness, put some time and effort into strengthening it.

Takeaway 3: don’t forget the details. Don’t be like me and in a rush to complete everything. Checked it over twice? Good. Check it a third time and then get someone else to check it for you too.

10 Lessons from One Year of Writing Full-Time: focus on you and your projects

This is probably the hardest lesson I learned this year and the one I find most difficult to stick to. This is one I really want to focus on going into my second year.

When I left my job, I took on stacks of freelance work. I was terrified I wouldn’t pay my bills. Terrified I would have to go back to a job I hated. I wasn’t thinking about me. I was just hell bent on surviving. Make it to the end of the first year and then *some magical mythical unicorn-shaped thing that will appear and suddenly make me realise all is well*

There was no unicorn, people. There were just 365 very long days and a slow gradual realisation.

The realisation was twofold:

1. I didn’t need much money to survive.
2. If I didn’t need much money then I could take less freelance work from others and still pay all my bills and BONUS get my time back.

See, I realised my time was more important than my money. I needed my time to create the things I wanted to create. Sure, in the meantime it meant earning a little less. But in the long run, I’d earn far more because I’d have created things I can sell, things that will out last my life and provide income for my children and grandchildren. 

I knew this lesson. We all know this lesson. But there’s something very different about knowing something and then living it in practice. I suppose it’s a little like being a parent. Everyone gives you advice and tells you how it will be. You smile and nod and acknowledge their experience. But it doesn’t matter how much they say or you hear, parenting is an inexplicable journey that no second hand lesson can prepare you for.

Takeaway 4: expect to learn lessons you’ve already learned all over again. Expect to learn lessons you didn’t think you would. Know that your time is far more valuable than the money you can exchange for it.

10 Lessons from One Year of Writing Full-Time: keep learning, learn inside, learn outside 

I spent a long time learning and studying the industry on my way to leaving my job. I consumed information, blogs, podcasts, courses. It would be easy to just stop once you reach that big goal of leaving your job. But it would also be irresponsible.

The only way to grow is to keep learning, keep changing. That means consciously, intentionally putting time and effort into studying the industry and your craft and trying to grow your knowledge.

I’ve been to fewer conferences this year, not because I wanted to go to less, but because: corona-gate. The ones I have been to have found me coming away with fewer and fewer lessons learned. I asked someone I respect why this was and they made the point that most conferences are pitched at beginners or middlers… that’s a word, I swear. Once you’ve been to enough conferences, you’ve soaked up the information. Then it’s about the networking. If you want to continue learning, you have to grow your circle of learning, reach into connecting sectors, look at business and entrepreneurs, look at your interests and the industries surrounding them.

My point to you is, yes, the indie world is essential, but you can learn just as much about business and making money in our sector as you can from other industries.

Takeaway 5: Keep intentionally learning. Yes, learn from inside the indie sphere, yes improve your craft, but also keep an eye on other sectors, on other models. You can learn as much from them as you can fellow authors.

***

MUSICAL INTERLUDE: 

I really believe that 80% of surviving your first year, and actually, surviving long term is mental strength and mental resilience. I didn’t know this until I wrote this reflection and saw that my lessons were split 50/50 business and mindset. Here beginith the mindset lessons.

10 Lessons from One Year of Writing Full-Time: the leaps of faith don’t stop with ‘I quit’

For a while, I thought the only leap of faith I’d have to make was leaving my day job. Oh Sacha. Dear sweet, naïve Sacha… In the words of Ygritte, “You know nothing, Jon Snow.” If one thing is totally clear, it’s that working for yourself is a continual ‘schooling’.

See that fateful ‘I quit’ leap was huge. In some ways it’s probably the biggest leap of faith any of us ever have to take. But there are definitely other leaps of faith that crop up along the way.

From trusting your gut, deciding whether to enter into a collaboration, deciding which product to create first, or whether to end a freelance relationship, the mini leaps of faith don’t stop. In fact, they get more frequent. Though perhaps, as your confidence and resilience grows, each leap gets a little easier.

Takeaway 5: as brave as you had to be to say ‘I quit’, be prepared to use similar levels of bravery during your first year in business.

10 Lessons from One Year of Writing Full-Time: you’re on your own, until you’re not

One of the hardest and most fulfilling parts of working for myself is the fact that yes, while mistakes are my fault, so are all the successes. I love that. Every pound I bring in is earned through my hard fought work. It makes me proud. I know that’s not for everyone. I know for some the safety of a monthly paycheck is too important. And I get it, believe me. I’m a shit load greyer at the end of this year than I was a year ago! That would be the stress. It’s stressful being completely responsible for your income. But I kinda love it in a sick, masochistic sort of way.

But all that said and done, what this life is, is pressured and isolating. I thought I’d get lonely working by myself, but actually, I haven’t at all, there’s not been time to get lonely. But then, I’ve intentionally cultivated friendships. And I’ve realised just how vital those friendships are. Spouses, loved ones, no matter how supportive they are, don’t really get it. I adore my wife and I’ll forever be grateful for her support in me leaving my job. But there’s something that she (and anyone’s loved one) just don’t get. 

You need the solidarity of a friend who’s been there, done it and worn five of the t-shirts. I’m not sure yet, whether it’s the mental highs and lows we go on, the strange slant a creative mind has or something about the weight of sole responsibility for a business. But there’s definitely a connection I need with fellow writers to just chat industry, business and writing nonsense that they understand. 

Whether you’re an extrovert who finds it easy to make friends, or not, friends, especially industry friends are vital in your first year of business. To mine, both peers and mentors, you know who you are, thank you. 

Takeaway 6: cultivate friendships, especially fellow writers or business owners. They’re more important than you know.

10 Lessons from One Year of Writing Full-Time: Resilience 

Before I left my job, I was buzzing off the excitement of “I’M GONNA HAVE ALL THE HOURS IN THE DAY TO WRITE.”

Oh, Sacha. Oh, dear sweet fucking innocent Sacha. How wrong you could be.

Whatever you think you’re going to get time-wise, halve it and assume that half will be pressured. I’m serious. 

Transitioning took far longer than I thought it would. Even now, I don’t really feel settled because things keep changing. I’m about to move house, again. Though this time for the last time. My business model changed from heavily freelance to now much less so, that took an adjustment.

In my first eight months of solo life, I lost one full working week every month. THAT’S TWO MONTHS OF NOT WORKING in my first eight months. Believe me, that was not through choice. Time is a fickle bitch and if you’re not super strict with your working time, it will abandon you. From family holidays to sick kids, dentist and doctors appointments, food deliveries and more. It’s very easy to suddenly have time vanish. Lesson learned. I have to be much stricter with my time. But also more resilient with both my planning and my mental strength.

Ensuring I put slippage time on deadlines and launches and project completions has helped. When I was deciding my launch date for The Anatomy of Prose, I wanted it to be the end of March. Then I moved it to early April. Never have I been more grateful for one of my friends pressuring me into a longer preorder. If you’re listening Meg LaTorre, I owe you one. No sooner did I hit the preorder go live—having given myself an extra two months of just in case—then corona virus shut the country down. Meaning I had a 6 year old around my feet 24 hours a day. Good fucking luck getting launch work done now Sacha.

I could have let that crush me. I could have thrown a tantrum and despaired knowing that I couldn’t do as much for my launch as I wanted. But there’s no point. Mental resilience is key. Just because it will be a lower key launch, doesn’t mean I stop there. Once it’s out I can keep marketing. Once the kids are back at school I can work harder.

No matter what you think is going to happen, it won’t. Life will constantly throw blockers and obstacles in your way. You’re not going to have endless streams of time for your business. I’m drowning in house and mortgage paperwork, then we’ll be packing and moving and dealing with school changes. There’s always going to be something trying to get in the way.

Resilience. 

Expect things to get in your way, prepare yourself mentally, and give yourself as much time as possible. Just because you haven’t got as much time as you planned, doesn’t mean you’ve failed or you’re business isn’t going to work. It will, you just have to be flexible and find a new route. 

Takeaway 7: Expect things to get in your way, prepare yourself mentally, and give yourself as much time as possible.

10 Lessons from One Year of Writing Full-Time: you can’t work 24 hours a day

Transition is brutal. You go from a day structure that effectively 90% of society follows to no rules, no boss, no expectations. You’re on your own, which means you get to make your own schedule too. And then suddenly you get to do the thing you love more than anything ALL.DAY.LONG. The temptation to just continue working all day and all evening is real!

Worse, there are no boundaries. Work is home is work is home. My office is in my house so the lines of separation are blurred to say the least. Even though I’d happily work 24 hours a day, my body conks out and my family eventually strop—and rightly so.

The lesson here is that eventually, despite my best intentions to work until my eyes bleed, and pieces of my body fall off, I simply can’t. This is a work in progress. Getting the right balance is something I’ll probably always struggle with. I’m an out and proud workaholic, I love what I do, and I have big goals to achieve.

Takeaway 8: balance is hard to achieve, get comfortable experimenting and if your family tell you you’re working too hard, don’t get mad, just listen. They’re probably right.

10 Lessons from One Year of Writing Full-Time:  say yes until you have to say no

When I first left work, I was terrified—almost to the point of paralysis. What if I couldn’t pay my bills? What if I couldn’t put food on the table? So I took on freelance work (and a lot of it). Unfortunately, that led me to the point of burn out because I was still trying to do all the things for my business too. I ended up extremely tired and in a position where most of the time I’d worked was spent on things for others instead of writing and creating products I could sell.

This was a gift and a curse. It enabled me to grow in confidence. Over time, I realized I could survive just fine without all that freelance work. No one was going to go hungry. But if I’m going to make this work, then I needed to refocus my time on creating things that will last.

Learning to say no to quick cash is a tough one. There’s a mindset shift required; you have to value yourself, your work and your ability to make things that generate income. That takes time.

Takeaway 9: when you first leave your job, having a mix of freelance and passive income is good for reassurance and buying you time to grow your confidence, but eventually, you’re going to have to say no. And that’s okay too.

10 Lessons from One Year of Writing Full-Time: no matter what happens, this is better

In a way a lot of this year-long journey has been about survival, just getting to the end to defeat the fear. I guess it’s been a journey of empowerment.

I was in the unfortunate position of not enjoying my day job. I spent a long time struggling to stay positive because of that. And it’s probably why a lot of the first year was spent shrouded in fear; fear of being broke, fear of having to go back, fear that I’d fail.

I’ve reached a point where I know that no matter what happens, no matter what I have to do to earn money, for me personally, this life is 100% better than anything that came before. Leaving work really solidified what’s important in my mind. When I look back at who I was and how crippled I was, mentally, physically and emotionally, I know nothing can be that bad again. I won’t allow it. I keep this photo—which was taken on one of my darker days in the office—as a reminder. As a short sharp slap to ensure I practice appreciation and gratitude, even on the hard writing days.

Takeaway 10: no one said this was easy. But it is fun. It is play. This is the best job in the world, and it’s worth every millisecond of rollercoaster. It’s worth every bit of blood, sweat and tears it takes to get here. So keep driving forward, keep learning, keep pushing and at some point, take the leap of faith and say, “I QUIT.”

The post 028 10 Lessons from One Year of Writing Full-Time appeared first on Sacha Black.

We talk about:

• The pillars of creating suspense and tension in your story
• Sentence level tricks for creating suspense
• Mistakes to avoid when creating suspense
• Tips and tricks for the beginnings and endings of your chapters
• Resources and recommendations for more

This week’s questions is:

 What’s keeping you sane during lockdown?

Book recommendation this week is comes from Katie Forrest who recommended Untamed by Glennon Doyle.

Grab your copy on Kobo https://www.kobo.com/ebook/untamed-132

And don’t forget you can preorder your copy of The Anatomy of Prose in ebook, paperback and hardback here:  https://books2read.com/anatomyofprose

Listen or Watch NEXT LEVEL AUTHORS

Watch on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXnvkIvvQvHBbrO_RtUnlVA

Listen on your Podcatcher https://nextlevelauthors.podbean.com

Join the Next Level Author Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/nextlevelauthors/

Listener Rebel of the Week is Meg Cowley

If you’d like to be a Rebel of the week please do send in your story, it can be any kind of rebellion. You can email your rebel story to rebelauthorpodcast@gmail.com or tweet me @rebelauthorpod

If you’d like to support the show, and get access to all the bonus essays, posts and content, you can from as little as $2 a month by visiting: www.patreon.com/sachablack

This week’s episode is sponsored by Kobo.

Find out more about my guest Christina Kaye on her

Website: www.topshelfedits.com 

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/topshelfeditingllc

The post 027 How to Write Suspense with Christina Kaye appeared first on Sacha Black.

This week’s question is:

What do you do for self care?

The book of the week this week is mentioned in the podcast. It’s Chillpreneur by Denise Duffield Thomas. You can grab a copy using my affiliate link below.

Kobo https://www.kobo.com/ebook/chillpreneur

Amazon UK https://amzn.to/2ODpAei

Amazon USA https://amzn.to/2Sz9eEP

Rebel of the week this week is Ireland Gill. If you’d like to be a Rebel of the week please do send in your story, it can be any kind of rebellion. You can email your rebel story to rebelauthorpodcast@gmail.com or tweet me @rebelauthorpod

If you’d like to support the show, and get access to all the bonus essays, posts and content, you can support the show by visiting: www.patreon.com/sachablack

Multiple Streams of Income for Authors with @rachaelherron #selfpublishing #IARTG #ASMRG #amwriting #writingcommunity #writetip
Share on X

Multiple Streams of Income for Authors

Find out more about Rachael on her:

Website

Patreon

Instagram

The Writer’s Well Podcast

How do You Write Podcast?

Sacha Black
Hello and welcome back to The Rebel Author Podcast. Today I am with Rachael Heron. Rachael is the internationally best selling author of more than two dozen books, including thriller under RH Herron, mainstream fiction, feminist romance memoir and nonfiction about writing. She received her MFA in writing from Mills College, Oakland, and she teaches writing extension workshops at both UC Berkeley and Stanford. She is a proud member of the NaNoWriMo writers board. She’s a New Zealand citizen as well as an American Hello.

Rachael Herron
Hello. And basically, I need you to know that I just want to listen to your voice for the rest of my life. Look perfect. Podcasting voice.

Sacha Black
Oh, thank you. Do you know it’s funny you say that? That is actually why I started podcasting. I had a few people tell me that they could listen to to me all day, it’s just like, but I just waffle bollocks.

Rachael Herron
It doesn’t matter. We just want to hear you do that waffling bollocks.

Sacha Black
All thank you so much. It really does mean a lot to me. Also, I’m a bit of a cheater in that. When I was a teen, I had an agent, and I did voiceover and TV work. So I did some training. So

Rachael Herron
interesting as a kid.

Sacha Black
I bet this is terrible. It’s a terrible story. I shouldn’t say so. Negative. I’m gonna tell you. Have you ever heard of S club? Seven?

Rachael Herron
No.

Sacha Black
Okay, well, they were like a teeny poppy teenage band. And I did all of that like CDroms because that’s how old I am. And and then I did a TV show and I was on like the UK version of what must be. Wait Nope. Like Cartoon Network or something in America. I was the main lead, but then I got bullied really badly, and I never acted again. And that is the end of that story.

Rachael Herron
Voice people were bullies.

Sacha Black
You know, the children back at my school were awful.

Oh, yeah. You were too big for your britches,

Apparently.

Rachael Herron
Oh, that’s terrible. I’m sorry that happened to you.

Sacha Black
Oh well fuck them now. I’m a rebel podcast. Or not. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I get to talk to awesome people. So you know who’s laughing now. Anyway, forgive me. Tell me about you. And I would love to know more about your journey. I know that you’re a hybrid author. You have lots of different income streams. I know you have a really amazing multifaceted business. So tell me about you. How did you get to where you are now?

Rachael Herron
Oh, lots of lots of work. So much work. I think the thing that I always like to remind myself of the most is on a day like this where I’ve kind of been fighting a headache and, and lying around and whining about not getting my words done, I have to remind myself that I spent 10 years 10 full years, writing full time and working at my day job for between 60 and 80 hours a week. So it was just I don’t have kids, you know, so that I just worked all the time. And that makes me so grateful today that I even get to be whiny, you know, but um, but how I got to be a full time writer was typical story I wanted to write from the time I was a reader, yada, yada. And one day I realized that there was a person behind the books that I love so much, and I wanted to be that person. I wanted to be the person who was kind of hiding behind the books, and I still want to be that person. And but I, you know, everybody told me you couldn’t do that. So I went to school for business and I completely forgot about that. For like, you know, seven or eight years, failing miserably in college, trying to be a business major, and then I just changed my major to English and graduated immediately, and went on to get a masters. And then I went on to spend the next seven years after my master’s writing. Just I was trying to write the great American novel and I was not writing any I was like writing a very poor American chapter, you know, 500 pages of it. And then you know, another 300 page novel that went nowhere they were all character sketches. And if I’m not careful, still, that’s what I write, I just write you know, 300 pages of a character sketch and I have to add some plot to it. That is a problem.

Sacha Black
We all have our vices,

Rachael Herron
We do. We do. Some people write, plot and forget to put character development in that is not my problem. But I spent years and years trying to do that and really failing. And then in 2006, my sister told me about NaNo, which is National Novel Writing writers month which just finished and I told her she was a Idiot. And not no real self respecting writer would ever tried to write a book in a month. And I laughed out of the house. And as soon as she left, I’m exaggerating a little bit. As soon as he left, I did Google the site, and I just signed up. I thought, This is stupid. So I must do it. And I can’t do it. And I can’t write a great literary novel in four weeks. So I will write about what I love. And I love love, and I love romance. And I also really, really, really love knitting. So I wrote KnitLit it was not a thing yet. There were no there are no knitting romances out there yet. So I was one of the first on the scene for that.

But that book actually turned out to be terrible. Number one, but when I looked back at it, like six months later, I dragged it out and and actually took it an objective look at it again. And it was really terrible, but there were parts in it that were better than anything else I’d ever written because I was just having fun and I just gotten out of my editors way. And I had been one of those typical writers who thought I had to, you know, get chapters one through three right before I moved on to chapter four. So I never moved much past chapter four or five. And now I’m have the complete conviction that most writers, if they think revising, as they go is their method as I did, that is only true if you’re completing books that you’re proud of. If you think revising as you go is your method but you’re not completing books is that your method you are more of a, you must finish a terrible draft like 99% of the rest of writers, and then make it into something not terrible later.

But the whole trick is getting the words on the page, which is what nano just really ripped off, ripped open for me to see. And I revised that book and make it sound so easy, but it wasn’t I didn’t know what the hell I was doing. And then I say in the same manner, I found an agent. I didn’t know what the hell I was doing. queried for a long time, got a lot of rejections stacked up. And then suddenly I had two agents interested at the same time. So I got to kind of, you know, pick the one I loved and I’m still with her. That was 11 years ago. And she sold that book at auction to Harper Collins in a three book deal. And so that was kind of the the fairy tale come true, right? It did. It really happened. And I liked it. You might know from listening to my show, but I like to talk about real numbers. Because no one knows in this industry, what we’re talking about, like what is it? What is an auction book deal? So it went for six figures 110,000. So that was like $37,000 per book, which after taxes and everything I was bringing home around, around 20,000 of that, per book, each book, there was a book a year so I couldn’t quit the day job on $20,000 you know, a year and those books completely bombed.

So the first book sold the best at all It almost earned out. The second book came out the week the Borders closed so it came out to crickets and no sales for anyone that in those few months and the third book did even worse. Interestingly, they had been bought by Harper Collins in the in the States but Random House and Australia New Zealand and I became a Southern Cross bestseller there. People really liked my voice there, and Australia, New Zealand. And so they kept the the series continuing because Harper Collins wouldn’t you know would have pushed me into the dark alley that I came out of. and rightfully so I wasn’t selling for them. Random House wanted me to keep going. So I kept writing. I wrote two more books in that series and novella and that’s how I became hybrid is my I my my name was mud in America. My name Could not sell those other romances, especially that they were books four and five and a series and Harper Collins while they couldn’t sell one through three, and they weren’t going to sell us the rights back the rights back, or anything like that. So nobody wanted those books. And this was right around. It would have been right around 2011 or so that I wrote those and just self publish them myself because I could I had the rights to all territories except for Australia, New Zealand. And I learned everything about self publishing through that venture. And I learned that I’m good at it, and I really like it. I really, really enjoy the process of being self published.

So now, I think I’m working on book 26. And I did the numbers the other day, I think 14 of them are traditionally published, and the others are all self published. So I’m pretty, pretty even even out last year, I made exactly the same amount of money for trad pub that I did on self pub. I am I’m a six figure author for the last two years, which is crazy to me, but I would say that, you know, usually it’s not more than 40 or $50,000 of that is book money. It’s, it’s the other half is all hustle, it’s coaching and teaching and Patreon and like you said, all of those different methods of income and I really, I am just so happy when when one stream of income gives me you know, $50 it’s like Yes, $50 You know, that’s going to go towards this and that’s how we make this, this writing life work. But about four years ago, I was able almost four years ago now, I was close enough to bringing in just the bare minimum from writing that I could quit my job and still make up my half of the of the mortgage and all of our our stuff my wife, she has the insurance for us. So that’s great in America, I could not have quit if she if she hadn’t had that insurance. And then my mother in law got sick. A few months before I was going to leave and so I left a little bit early. I was like, why am I spending time saving up a little bit more money where I when I could, you know, leave the state and go be with my beloved mother in law. So that’s how I made the leap. And for the last, you know, a little bit more than three and a half years, I have been terrified every single month that I’m going to end up living under a bridge. So far, we are still in the house, like I make a lot more writing now than I did when I quit. And I was just thinking about that today driving home. Because when I quit, I knew that I needed to make I think I can’t remember if it was 36 or $42,000 a year. That’s what I needed to make to make my half of the bills and pay everything that was bare minimum. And it’s only gone up since then it’s kind of every year by at least 17%. And then it jumped into into the success.

Sacha Black
That gives me a lot of hope. There are so many things I want to come back to you on this and before we before we before we delve into the millions of questions that I want to ask you NaNoWriMo So tell me, so you talked a little bit there about vomiting, the first draft versus revising as you go, and that you couldn’t get past three or four, chapter three or four because you are editing. So, excuse me. Tell me about your process. Now. Do you still write linearly? Or do you write all over the place? How does that work?

Rachael Herron
I wish I could write all over the place. I am such a boring linear person that I write the book from beginning to end. And what that usually means is I write all of the scenes in the car when they were moving from a to b and then I write the toothbrushing scene because I don’t know maybe it’ll mean something. So I write these incredibly boring scenes that are later axed so I’m an over writer. And I and you know, it’s like a curly hair versus straight hair, you always want when you are not, you know, and I would love to be an underwriter so that then I could go in and and in second draft Make everything you know more beautiful and bigger and everything instead of always just trying to, you know, trim the weeds. And I still do the vomit draft, I still write a draft as fast as I possibly can. And it’s only this year that I have. I’ve been thinking a lot about just, you know, bigger things entering middle age, you start to think about you really start thinking about, you know, who you are and who you’ve been and why you’ve been that way. And I’m learning how much of a control freak I am and how I would like to run the world and I can’t run anything, even myself much of the time. And I realized that that is why I’ve had such a hard time with first drafts for the last 11 years. 12 years, is that when you’re first drafting for me anyway, I feel very out of control. I am not a good outline, or my best ideas come to me while I’m writing and I know that and I do have to write an outline. Nowadays, especially like for the book I just sold it needed to be completely outlined out with a full synopsis, which was agony to me. But that feeling of loss of control now that I’ve named it, it’s gotten a lot easier now I know Oh, you hate this because you you are you have no control over this process. You’re vomiting terrible words out that you can’t control. And it’s fine. That’s just the way it goes. And later in revision, which I love, I will I will have fun again. But just knowing that it’s about loss of control has made first drafting for me again.

Sacha Black
I find that so fascinating because I used to vomit and and i would vomit hard and fast again and I would get to the end of the book. And I have not published in nearly a year. So I am having I’ve had… now there are many causes for why I have not published first I’ve transitioned so I’ve left my full time employment to being full time by myself.Yeah, second is just a number of burnouts over the course of the last year. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it really is. And also, then, excuse me loads of just all that mental bullshit that writers give themselves like, you know, imposter syndrome fear because now I’m not on the first book anymore. And, you know, also I write nonfiction. I teach other writers. So, you know, I’m like, what, what if I’m not good enough? You know, and so I just can’t seem to finish. But also, I think I may have had an epiphany here this evening, because I have started to edit as I write, so I, so I’m still I’m still very much a vomiter. But I will vomit, sort of 20,000 words. And then, but I don’t write in order. So I write completely out of sequence. So I just, I just No, no, no, no, no, it’s awful.

Rachael Herron
It sounds so creative.

Sacha Black
You have to puzzle this thing together. And then there’s always shit that needs removing and then you have an epiphany. So of course you have to revise the first 30,000 words five fucking times the grass this grass it’s not greener I promise you it is definitely no yeah. And but no i i feel like I need to give myself permission to just just keep vomiting and just fix it later so yeah, thank you

Rachael Herron
Isn’t that where we get our I mean for me that’s where everything comes from is and I can’t even sit down and say wow I’m not creative today but I know as soon as I start typing ideas will start to bubble up the Muse definitely comes and like you know pokes me in the head while I’m working and at no other time I’m not a person who gets incredible ideas in the shower or…

Sacha Black
I am

Rachael Herron
Are you?

Sacha Black
Yeah. Usually when I’m driving and have no ability to write anything down.

Rachael Herron
That does that does stir things up and just this the last few months I’ve been keeping a notebook every single place I am there’s a notebook on my desk. There’s one in my car. Door. There’s one right next to the bed. And there’s one in the kitchen. So and in my in my bag. So there’s always a notebook. And then I, you know, and I’ve actually been using it a little bit. Yeah,

Sacha Black
That is a really good idea. I am actually going to put a notebook in my car tomorrow morning.

Rachael Herron
And the door, the pen is attached to waking it. And you don’t have to look while you drive. And it’s easier for me than my phone when I’m driving. Because I’m just not that. I mean, I do look at my phone to change podcast and stuff, but I don’t want to type. So yeah.

Sacha Black
Amazing. Um, there’s so many things I want. I want to ask, but I fear I will literally take up your entire day. So let me ask one of the questions I’m supposed to be asking. Okay, so we haven’t actually mentioned your podcast yet. So I know you have more than one. The one that I have been binge listening to of late is called the Writers Well, and so for anybody who is listening who hasn’t listened to the right as well stop whatever you’re doing as you know, don’t keep listening. But often have you finished listening. Go listen to the Writers Well. It’s amazing. What I love about your podcast is that it’s so it’s almost philosophical, it’s reflective, it goes deep, it gets under the skin. And I just love that it makes me stop and think about my own journey. And you know, taking those moments out of the busy at just to really reflect and look at where we are. So for anybody who likes that kind of stuff, please go listen, I love it.

Rachael Herron
Thank you.

Sacha Black
The question that I want to ask is around some of the episodes that have cooled to me personally, I have a real interest at the moment about money and debt and being you know, to get to to be able to leave my job I had to pay off 40,000 pounds worth of debt in about three years.

Rachael Herron
So proud of you.

Sacha Black
Thank you. I it was never really intention. I had student loans, then we had fertility treatments, and I had to pay off a car. So it wasn’t, it wasn’t frivolous spending, but it was it, you know, it had to be paid off, because otherwise I was never leaving the job I hated. But one of the things that you and J talk about is multiple streams of income. And I think a lot of listeners would like to leave their jobs and multiple streams of income, in my humble opinion is one of the fastest ways to do that. So could you tell everybody what multiple streams of income are what they look like to you? And yeah,

Rachael Herron
I love this because I just don’t think we talked about money enough. I had a an article come out in the writer magazine, which is an American, I think it’s the oldest writing magazine in America recently about money and about shame and about how we just don’t talk about it with our cubicle mates, you know every and it’s I don’t I don’t know how it is there but here money is for showing off. It’s never for talking about honestly. So I always love to talk about money and I love to talk about debt because I think that I was we were drowning in it at one point we were we paid off $120,000 of debt and that was an old tax bill as well as that my wife’s that caught up with her $40,000 with a credit card debt that we got into when we were trying to save my old condo for from foreclosure. And back in the back in the aughts, which we did not manage to do. I owed 50,000 words, dollars 1000 words that just flew off my $30,000 worth of student debt. And it was just shackling, us and I had these big dreams of leaving this job that I worked 60 to 80 hours a week doing and didn’t you know, I enjoyed parts of it, but most of the time I was pretty miserable and I Just had this realization one day, I could not leave without paying off the debt.

Yeah, there was no, I think that most people unless you have a partner who can take care of you in a way in which I would love to become accustomed to,

Sacha Black
Wouldn’t we all?

Rachael Herron
Wouldn’t we? But we can’t, we cannot become a full time author. Unless that debt is paid, we cannot take that leap without doing it. So I really put all of my back into paying that off, I highly recommend tool called wine app, which is you need a budget. youneedabudget.com. It’s a it’s an online app. And it is it taught me how to use money. At 40 years old, I still did not know how money worked and after using wine app for a while, it’s not really a budgeting tool. It’s more like just it’s just like an eye opener of a tool. It’s like mint or Quicken or any of those other things but it’s different and I am such I proselytize for it everywhere because after you know, a few months of of using it. I told my wife I’m like, did you You know that every single animal we have and I think at that point we had like six or seven costs us $100 a month.

Yeah, so each animal will cost us a cost us $100 a month, which was insane to me. And it just was what and it kept happening to me like we spend that much on car registration a year, we spend that much. And that’s why we were always living month to month, up until this point and having emergencies that would then cripple so wineapp really taught me how to allocate funds to the things that were actually going to happen. And we paid off the debt. And what I really saw happen was were these multiple streams of income. And for me what multiple streams of income looks like to get to your question. I’ve always been wide on all platforms. I am not a proponent of putting all my chips on Amazon and letting the roulette wheel roll. I have a very strong love hate relationship with Amazon. They pay some of my bills. So thank you, Amazon. I’m having groceries delivered this afternoon via Amazon Prime. So that’s amazing. But also they’re so scary they could they could change everything we know, tomorrow with the stroke of the pen.

So I published everywhere I publish wide on all the platforms. I do print for everything. I’m available in libraries. I do audio, of course, for everything. And I have never done a royalty share. I’ve always kept the rights for myself, which means that there are some books that I have, you know, contracted out to audio artists that have never earned out yet. They’ve never never paid themselves, but I believe in having that money there. Let’s see. I teach quite a bit I teach, like you mentioned at Berkeley and Stanford. I regret my MFA in many ways, but I didn’t because it was just a load of money down the drain. And I didn’t learn how to write a book. I learned how to write a book by writing books. And by attending organizations like romance Writers of America. That’s where I really got my education. But I am so grateful to the Masters because that means I can teach in these programs. And I think most life changing for me though, in terms of you know, and then I write articles for magazines and that kind of thing, but most life changing for me was when Patreon came on the scene. And suddenly, there was this way to monetize to basically pay my own royalties. As I’m writing books, I’ve written two full memoirs under Patreon, a chapter a month, and people who support me on Patreon have been paying for those essays. And because I have to produce it every month, I’m on a per thing basis at Patreon. So if I don’t produce a chapter, I do not get paid. And that has made me write two full books. I’m like, you know, I’m working on the third now, of these with people support and these people support and you know, $1 amounts or $5 amounts. And that was on Honestly, the bump that allowed me to leave work, I was so close to be able to be able to leave my job. And then Patreon came out probably six months before I left and I thought, Oh my gosh, here’s this extra 1500 dollars a month that now it feels a little bit safer Patreon could also fold tomorrow, I don’t like to rely on anything over much. And in fact, I was we you know, we’re and we are not rich, we’re always we have we were really trying to save now for retirement and things like that. I need to make more money. But just recently, I actually cut down on some of my patreon work because I was coaching through Patreon at the hundred dollar level, I would read your work and coach you every month. And I had 10 of those people which was fantastic. There’s $1,000 and I just fired them all recently, because I was facing some serious burnout and I had to let something go and so I took that thousand dollars off my plate and my wife is like what you did what

Sacha Black
But been out is so real and I can really attest to, to what burnout is doing to me, I just had to, I’ve taken a three month pause. So I do developmental editing. And I’ve had to take, reduce the number of clients and put a limit on how many clients I take, just because my I’m only 32 and my body is falling apart, like literally falling apart. bits of me are breaking off. I just you know, this should not be happening with a DD or haven’t been well, since September, you know, and that is not okay. For a 32 year old. You should be healthy and in your prime and blah, blah, blah. But yeah, it’s it is it is real. I wanted to ask you two things on the things that you just said. And Firstly, first one, I wanted to delve a little bit more into the shame and why you think people feel shame? Because I totally agree. And you know, in England, we have our stiff upper lip. And you know, we we don’t talk about these things only to judge others on what their job is, you know, that is all we do here. And sorry for any British people listening, I do obviously love you all. But you know, we do like to charge and have a stiff upper lip. And, and the other one is to ask you to question Sorry, I’m so bad. I’m just like, all of the questions. And do you feel like a full time writer? And what does your working week look like? because lots of people say to me, um, you’re not a full time writer. And I’m like, but I am because I’m not in an office anymore. And I can choose what I want to write, you know? So yeah,

Rachael Herron
let’s start there. Let’s start there. Actually, you are a full time writer. I am a full time writer. I realized that Once when I, I did this thing for the first year or so after I left my job, I tracked my hours as if I were a lawyer or something or as if I were going to, you know, pay myself according to every 15 minutes segment that I spent doing things. And I was only writing at max when I’m writing a first draft, I can’t do more than like two hours a day of first drafting and then I just want to kill myself so that was the time I was spending writing, or revising, revising, I can do for longer but but a lot of the days I wasn’t even getting to that and I but every single thing I was doing was contributing to bringing money into to my household using my brain which understands words, so I completely empathize with what he said about editing for the first. I think probably first year I was full time writing, I edited and I now I hate nothing more. There is just this part of my brain that I’m good at it, but I get furious at having to spend my brain cells on someone else’s work and it absolutely was prevented me from working on my own. So that was another hit like the Patreon I just I do not developmental edit at all anymore and I could never copy at it because I can’t catch any typos. I’m just not good enough for that.

But, um, but I was I was rageful when I was doing that and but as long as you are using your brain and  your talent with words, to bring in some bucks, you’re a full time writer, congratulations. But while I was tracking my time, I would I would have these very smug days where I would, you know, tell myself and whoever would listen that will you know, I worked you know, so nine and a half hour day to day was a 10 hour day and and finally I really I finally realized like what the hell am I doing? What is this shit I I write full time and if I want to write if I want to work, whatever that looks like for me, six hours a day, more power to me I still have this inordinate amount of guilt though around how hard I should be working. Because like, I hate it like, This morning I went out to write, I was out very early, I was out writing at the library near me. I can’t I didn’t do very many words, because I was not feeling well. So I drove home because I was going to take a nap and my wife’s cars in the driveway. And I was like, oh, god damn it, because I don’t like her to know that I nap. little booty up and gets on the train and commutes, you know, for an hour and a half a day to go work in the city at this web development job. And I’m like, I got you know, well, tired. You know, that’s not okay. And it is okay. That’s the thing. It is okay. I don’t she she helps. She holds no resentment about this. None literally, I’m the one holding the resentment toward myself for you know, have having worked very hard to get to this point where I can do this. But so I think I’m working backwards with your questions. So what the day looks like an ideal day, I start writing pretty early anytime between like 5am and seven am.

Sacha Black
I’m a hardened night owl, I think I just herniated a bit of lung or something.

Rachael Herron
So I’m not a night owl or a morning person, I’m really like I would like to be awake…

Sacha Black
Really 5am?

Rachael Herron
I know I but I worked this work this 911 job for so long. So now I’m used to getting up at any time, but, but it works really well for me if I get it over with and just rip the band aid off and get my writing done. And then I could spend the whole rest of the day. So usually So to answer your question, I write until usually, between 10 and noon, I try to do my writing and try not to look at email or anything else. And and that’s on an ideal day. Usually I got an email and I’m screwed. But the rest of the day is spent doing things like podcasting and writing other things and the marketing that I really should do but don’t. I’ve recently hired an incredible virtual assistant who lives here in open and he’s really been just helping me so much do all of those, like big marketing things that I should have done, like, make this series of box set, which I’d never gotten around to, you know, he’s handling all those kind of things. So that has been fabulous. And then I try not to work in the evenings ever or weekends. I really try to keep bankers hours as much as possible.

Sacha Black
Yeah, I should, I should do that. What do you

Rachael Herron
You know what I would, I would ask you what yours is, but I’ve already decided that I love you. And I want you on my podcast, which is all which is called How do you write and it’s about process. So on that show, I’m going to pick your brains about how you work. Is that okay?

Sacha Black
Okay. Yeah, of course. I’d be honored.

Rachael Herron
And then to your first question, which was about shame and debt. Debt is debt is a shameful thing. Debt debt is something that says I failed, right? I needed to do this or I wanted to do this, and I didn’t have the funds to do it. So I did it anyway. And there are good reasons to do that student loan. You know, like, like you said, IVF treatments. Those are great reasons to spend money that we don’t have, but it feels wrong. So therefore we don’t talk about it. And shame, I know I love Renee Brown, who does not love Renee Brown, and her research on shame, and everything that she has shown that shame exists in secrecy. And as soon as you open it to the light and tell other people your shame, you are met with empathy and the shame disappears. And I’ve seen that happen over and over again my I write right now I’m writing thriller for Penguin and I’m taking a break for romance, which I was self publishing. But my thing that I love to write as memoir, that’s my, that’s my jam. That’s what I teach. That’s what I write in the Patreon essays. And every single time I write an essay, or I think I should not tell anybody this this is the deepest, darkest secret yet. I am met with nothing but love and compassion and empathy and understanding. Yeah, so it’s, it’s, it’s just life changing for me every time it happens, and I will tell you, I think I told you J this once, but it’s not something I advertised. But about two years ago, I was feeling incredibly burned out, like burned out in a way that I’d never been before. And I could not could not write. I had had more than a year since a release. I was doing everything I had to to keep money coming in, like teaching and coaching and stuff, but nothing else nothing extra. And I decided to write a book called replenish and in this book called replenish, it was going to be a monthly essay exploration. I would try something that I thought might refill my well and I would write about it. And it took me about four months doing that to suddenly realized that I was an alcoholic. And they had not seen that coming. I just knew I drank a lot. I didn’t know. I kind of knew that I had never looked at it and And, and that was an incredibly shameful thing to number one realize I didn’t tell anybody for a few months. But I started to peel back that layer and show people that part of addiction. And I was met with nothing but love but the funny part about it is is that my brain said, who you thought you’d written about all the shameful things there’s more.

Sacha Black
There’s always more, there’s always more excuse me, Oh, I just I love every everything you’ve just said. And thank you for sharing that as well. And, and also thank you for you know, bringing up Brene brown it is Bernie isn’t it? I have had daring greatly on my audible I’ve already purchased I just haven’t listened yet. But I was ashamed of the debt. And and, and when I paid it off. I was like, Why? Because none of the things that I done you know, I had to buy a car because we had a child. And the pram wouldn’t fit in my other car. You know, we were told, I was told I couldn’t have I wouldn’t have kids because I’d go through the menopause before I was 30 they got it wrong, and I’m fine. But we didn’t for a long time that Yeah, I know. It’s a whole that’s a whole can of worms. I love my son. It’s fine.

But I was real pissed. Back then. Yeah, but you know, so, you know, we made these decisions and they had all these consequences. And they were all the right decisions. And yet still, I felt shame about them. But yeah, you absolutely.

Rachael Herron
I really like to think about money as energy and is really. It is energy that is all you know. So we none of us know how to control it. It’s it’s really, it’s really energy that is about our labor that then we trade for other people’s labor and because we don’t understand it It is having too much of it is shameful. Having not enough of it is shameful and having just the right amount, nobody knows what that looks like. So there’s, there’s just no understanding about it. And then and the more we talk about it, the more we expose that, you know, the more everybody realizes, oh, I don’t know what the fuck I’m doing either. I’m 40 years old and whatever fucking, you know, managed to live more than month a month, you know. And back then my wife and I were making great salary. I was making six figures at my job day job and bringing in you know, 30 or $40,000 from from the writing and still is like, money. We another debate where did it go?

Sacha Black
Yeah, I just sit Yes. All of the against all of that. Um, okay. Right. I’m going to force myself to move on. So I have two Patreon questions. And the first one is, as the industry continues to develop, what do you think are some of the innovative ways authors can maximize that income streams for books beyond the obvious multiple formats for things like ebooks paperback, audio and foreign rights.

Rachael Herron
Those are those are all great. And I I just think that there at especially indie writers, especially indie writers, need to keep in mind that intellectual property is what we’re what is what we own. It is what we sell. We don’t write a book, we write a vehicle to turn into other things. And that is something I’ve always been aware of, but my virtual assistant Ed really pointed that out to me. He’s like, well, we haven’t we haven’t done this with it yet. We haven’t done that. Have you thought about doing, you know, a clothing line for this? You know, these firefighters? You could have the fire shirts, you could have, you know, you could have schwag you can have multiple forms of audio that acted out one’s film rights is it is a great one when you can get it I have I have one perhaps coming through, who knows those are so nebulous. But doing things, I think actually reaching out to the people who love you best, your readers of any kind. And just knowing that they want to support you, I think is one of the things we overlook at the most Patreon directly addresses that.

But there are times when I have been able to reach out to readers for other kinds of help. And they are there and this is this is a this is an nonsense thing that I wouldn’t you know, I wouldn’t have to do now thank God but but years ago, I had a knitting blog before I ever sold a book. So I already I always had a readership that started in 2002. So I’ve had a readership since then, and one of my cats got really sick and he need to surgery and somebody told me, you know, this is maybe 2004. So somebody said, you should put a PayPal button on your site, and I did and I just Put one post that said, if you’d like to help towards Digit’s surgery because we were living paycheck to paycheck, I didn’t know how we’re going to pay this five grand bill and five grand flooded in ones and fives. And I think that’s the thing to remember about readers as fans is that they are generous to a fault. And that’s why I try to treat them like the the amazing people that they are. And many of them have turned into real, real true friends.

But for Patreon, especially, a lot of people support me, just to support me, they don’t care where the dollar is going. They I had, I was talking to somebody who was a Patreon supporter. And I said, Oh, my, it’s so good. It’s so kind of you. It’s, you know, you really make the difference in my life. I hope that you liked the essays. And she said, What essays. She hadn’t even really opened the emails to see that I sent out an essay every month. You just I had just told everybody at one point that I had a Patreon and she’s like, sure Here’s $1, you know? Um, so I guess my long winded answer is I don’t have something specific that could make us all a lot of money I wish I did. But treating the readers of any kind of have kind of have them broken into two camps. I have my fiction readers and I have the people who follow me about writing stuff, that the writers on my list, treating them like the extraordinary human beings who support me literally support me. So I owe them a debt of my service and of my honesty, and of my time, it’s just this beautiful two way street. And I do this with other writers that I love, you know, I support Patreon. Or, you know, I just buy their book, even though I know I have no time to read it, but I’m going to buy it in hardcover, and I’m going to buy it as someplace that is an Amazon I’m going to buy it at an independent bookstore. Even though I don’t read, I don’t read our covers, but that is how I support them. And you know that so I think that’s a very strange answer to that question.

Sacha Black
No, but I love it. I’m nodding along to so many of the things that you’re saying because I have a Patreon. And I just love that you can give to your patrons exactly what they want. So every single month, I make a point of sending a message to say, what would you like me to talk about or write about this month? And I get to I get to do that, and that is the best thing ever. And this the thing I find scariest about it, though, is that I find I am bearing more of my soul in these post of what I never intended to do, but you have such a close connection, you know, so that last month, I was talking about perfectionism, and I have a long history with perfectionism, and it is just destructive. And I was, you know, just you know, I talked about all of my personal experiences and how I really felt about these things. And I almost, ironically, didn’t press submit, because I was like, this post is not perfect. And it’s on perfectionism. How can I submit that? But you know, I had so many messages back from people saying, you know, thank you. And this really connected more than anything else that I’ve read. And I was like, that means more to me than anything, especially because I bared my soul, but also because it was something that they’d asked for. So I just love I love Patreon.

Rachael Herron
These are these essays that you’re providing, or are they?

Sacha Black
Not? Not what so that was, that was? Yeah, I didn’t I didn’t mean for it to be an essay, but it was essentially an essay. And yeah,

Rachael Herron
so let’s make sure we promote ourselves right now. Where’s your Patreon patreon.com slash? Sacha Black. Okay, and mine is patreon.com slash Rachel R A C H A E L. So that’s out there. And this is another thing I encourage writers to do is sign up for other people’s patrons and see how they’re doing it right and then steal those ideas. how we do it. I follow Amanda Palmer just for that reason because she is so incredible at Patreon. And she’s so incredible. I treating her fans like stars and that is what I want to do too and and follow in that so people should go follow us.

Sacha Black
Absolutely. I have just also funny enough because Amazon the bastard during the Black Friday sale got me with all of the two for one on audio books. I’m like, Amanda. She’s been on my wish list for ages. That is such a good book.

Rachael Herron
Oh, I like her music, but I love her as a conduit for truth more than more than anything else. And she’s a little bit annoying on Instagram, but that’s all right.

Sacha Black
Yeah, we all have I mostly post about lampposts. It’s it’s the whole thing.

Rachael Herron
I post about very expensive animals.

Sacha Black
Exactly, we all have our weird nuances. Okay, so following on from that. And the second Patreon question was how do you choose and manage income streams that work well together without overwhelming or burning yourself out? And I think you’ve probably covered a little bit of that and the choices that you’ve made. But yeah, if there’s anything elaborate on

Rachael Herron
For those kind of things, it’s just getting it wrong. It’s just trying things, getting it wrong. And realizing that in all aspects of our business, we are allowed to change our minds like I used to have a level at which I would, gosh, I would send them a postcard of things, you know, whenever I traveled or something like that, I would send them a postcard. I’m the worst postcard letter mail person in the whole entire world. So I never fulfilled it. It never got done. And then one day, I thought, Oh, I can just change that to something else that I do not have to go to the post office for and I changed it and and that lesson Patreon really taught me that lesson in my writing life that I’m we are constantly trying to adjust. Oh, I have a prescription for you. I read Denise Dillard, I can’t remember her last name. She’s Australian. And this book is called it’s a terrible title. I apologize. It’s called Chillpreneur.

Sacha Black
So, Katie, shout out to Katie. Katie, and she has actually posted me this book and in no way Yeah, it’s on my bedside table ready to read and I just I it is about two books down. But yeah.

Rachael Herron
Just move it to the top. Especially if you’re dealing with any kind of burnout right now because I went on this vacation last month, and I ran and I read it while we were gone. And I realized, Oh, I am hating being tied to this Patreon coaching and my brain said it is $1,000 a month. You absolutely cannot give that up. And my next thought after reading this book was Oh, but I must it’ll, it will just make it work. And I’m I’m making it work. And so yeah, read that book and maybe you’ll make more money now less money like I did. But it’s but it’s a beautiful way to remember that we get to change anything we want at any time. And that’s part of having a small business,

Sacha Black
Giving ourselves permission because I’m one of these people that I’m very, what’s the word? Yin and Yang in that I will rebel against any rule that is placed on me. But at the same time, sometimes I forget to give myself permission and get very stuck during the thing that I think I have to do. Yeah, I just I am just a complete contradiction in terms. But yeah, giving yourself permission to change your mind, I think is just such a valuable lesson in business.

Rachael Herron
I think that perfectionist of which I am also when it’s even harder, because again, it is admitting, oh, I might have got that wrong. And I like to pretend that I never get anything wrong and

Sacha Black
What do you mean pretend? I don’t ever get anything wrong.

Rachael Herron
I think our wives might talk the same way.

Sacha Black
Yeah. Okay, so you are several years into being full time now. Congratulations. Um, but I have heard a number of people say that year two is the hardest. I am seven months I think through my first year. Nobody died we still have a roof over.

Um, but what what can I do to prepare myself for this? Because fuck me You gave what has been enough of a roller coaster like what am I getting into? And yet here you like? Tell me tell me what I can do to my hair myself.

Rachael Herron
I love This question because year one is made of adrenaline. You’re one is just trying to get to the anniversary to say that you did it. That’s what it felt like to me just treading water, trying to bring in more money trying to bring in different income streams, trying to do things differently trying to do everything year two however, is when I hit that burnout. So I think and alcoholism, which, you know, which I was trying to cure, the burnout with. But I think just being knowledgeable that that is a fact for so many people is, you know, forewarned is forearmed. You, you have to take better care of yourself in year two, because you’re two is when it sinks in that, oh, I might be able to do this. And then it also sinks in, Oh, I might be able to do this. It just it gets easier and scarier at the same time. So if you’re not good at taking breaks, you have to build and taking breaks. If you’re not good at taking care of your body, for example, you have to get better at it. It’s just it’s just not it’s not a question you have to do it or you won’t be able to continue. I am 100% sure you will be able to continue and you have this knowledge so what things what things would you do differently in your to to take care of yourself better?

Sacha Black
Oh, that’s a real question? Oh shit. Um wow geez this is awkward

Rachael Herron
Do you overwork yourself or do you under eat or over eat or not exercise or

Sacha Black
note so well don’t remember the last time I ate lunch. I do exercise. I do Taekwondo. And

Rachael Herron
I see yours.

Sacha Black
Yeah. Just just won the British championships for ladies in my belt.

Yeah, I’m like a total badass. I’m like a secret ninja.

Rachael Herron
Things are also falling off of you. You’re you’re knocking them off.

Sacha Black
Also, yes, that might also have

Rachael Herron
swimming or so

Sacha Black
yeah something less head-kicky. It’s fine I won nine nil it’s fine.

Rachael Herron
amazing. Wow.

Sacha Black
And I meditate so that’s about pretty much the only things I do to look after myself in terms of working yeah all of the hours. I am now I’ve literally today I was like I need to schedule in the evenings when I don’t work. Yeah No I’ve actually put them in the calendar.

Rachael Herron
The only way I can do them is I like it I am such I’m weird. I’m either a workaholic or I have a migraine and I’m down but my my body just knocks my feet out from under me when I need to when I’m working too hard and I have a very hard time turning this off and it’s in our house this is in our house so we can’t really walk away and work is always there and so sometimes now I actually close my computer and I leave my phone in another room and I go and have dinner and you know hang out with my wife and and it just feels so wrong, but we have to. We just have to.

Sacha Black
I’m gonna work on that. Okay, so another going back to money then I am really interested at the moment and I feel like I have a book brewing on money. Although, I don’t know, I don’t know if I’m the right person to write it. I don’t know if I don’t. I don’t know. Anyway, like…

Rachael Herron
If it’s brewing you probably are the right person. And and you know how we learn things in order to write?

Sacha Black
Yeah, well, exactly. And you know, I’ve just come through one end of the journey and now I want to make all the money so I want to do the other end of the journey. Which brings me to my question. I am really interested in how authors level up their business. So what do you think are the key steps you took to take your business from you know 10s to hundreds to hundreds to thousands a month to 10 thousands of month at, you know that thing. What are words? What are words? Yeah, you know, to a six figure business what what are the key things you did that you think had the biggest impact on leveling up your business?

Rachael Herron
That’s a great question. And for me, it was really realizing the limited ability I have to help everyone and thinking about what I do in terms of writing and in assisting other writers. In terms of scalability. I, if you if you if I was helping everyone on a one off basis for half an hour at a time, I’m not very much making that much money and I’m exhausting myself. So making that actual choice to put that time back into writing, which is something that becomes then intellectual property, which is something that I can then harness and do at least five things at the top of my head with you know, out there. It is why I’m currently working on making more courses. I only have one course out there. And it brings me a steady stream of money every month. And it has since I put it out there since before I quit my day job, so probably five years ago, and I just need to do more courses rather than working with people one on one, I’m building courses. I’m just writing more because that’s the part that is scalable.

I’m doing this. I like to think creatively. And I like to challenge myself. And so when I took that thousand dollar hit for Patreon, I thought, well, what can I do? That would be fun for me that might bring in a little bit of money, and it’s scalable. So I’m doing this thing I just started this week. And I have I think 10 people signed up or maybe nine people so far, but they pay me $49 a month. We get together at five goddamn am in the morning on the west coast of the US, and we write together for two hours. So what I’m doing is I’m showing up, we write together in a Zoom Room so we can all see each other and the little Little images, I talk I encourage they get into little groups and talk amongst each other. And then we just right so what is happening now, I am getting paid to encourage people on a scalable basis that could be 4000 people in that room, it doesn’t matter how many there are. I would love to have 4000. But I’m also getting my own writing done during our two writing sessions. I’m just sitting there with the camera on typing on my work, getting words, instead of trying to expand into another coaching or teaching opportunity. I’m trying to look at ways to be scalable, and to make myself happy and get my own work done at the same time.

Sacha Black
I’m having so many epiphanies. So this was the sort this is really the crux of the editing because I absolutely adore. So my, my personal passion is craft. And I have been told I am forensic at times because I deconstruct every book I ever read. And I’m writing a book now called The Anatomy of Prose just because I collect some says I, excuse me, I’ve written blogs for years about, you know how somebody does foreshadowing or how they’ve created characterization down at the sentence level or whatever. Anyway. So that was how I ended up falling into editing. But it’s so time intensive, and you’re only helping one person. And it’s frustrating because I want to help everyone.

Rachael Herron
Since we need to write more books about how to write better books,

Sacha Black
right, but and that’s the epiphany I just had right now because I’m like, Oh, yeah, that’s a really good point. Like, I just need to stop doing the thing, which is one on one and do the thing, which is one too many. And, and

Rachael Herron
I was just gonna say in terms of intellectual property, every time you write a book, that is another piece of that is another thing to turn into a course. And people don’t buy either the course or the book. They buy both. Because that’s what we do as humans. That’s what I do. When I find somebody whose voice I resonate with. I buy everything. I just want all of the things that they’ve written about right in terms of craft in terms of storytelling and in terms of this business, but I interrupted you gone?

Sacha Black
Oh, no, well, no, I was I was just going to say so. So I’ve, I’ve sort of got three or four course ideas, but I just need to get over myself and the imposter syndrome and the perfectionism. Just get them fucking done. cuz I’ve I’ve started, same number of times that and I just can’t get myself to the finish line. But it’s hard

Rachael Herron
Courses are so much work. I’ve been putting off for a while. They’re just so much work and no one can do them. But us. Yeah, I can’t hear that out to my VA.

Sacha Black
Oh, okay. My favorite question. This is The Rebel Author Podcast. So tell me about a time you unleash your inner rebel.

Rachael Herron
Oh, I looked over your questions, but I like to kind of surprise myself like I like we do on the writers. Well So I didn’t think too deeply about it, but I did. But this is the answer that occurred to me when I looked at them. And it’s occurring to me now and it’s dull. I’m sorry, I’m a boring person A lot of times, but quitting my job was that the biggest fuck you I have ever given to anything because I was raised from a blue collar hard working family, and you went to job and you took your paycheck and you went home and you lived your life. And that is how my you know, Dad retired that that way. And I had, I never lost a job. You know, since I got out of grad school, I had worked continuously, always more than 50 hours a week, no matter which I had three long term jobs after after grad school. all in the same kind of subset of what I was doing, which was 911. And, and to quit, felt like the balls easiest, stupidest, most terrible thing that I had ever done like it was just not acceptable for me as a human being who should be a contributing member of society, and you know, pay, you know, get paid by The Man and take it home to actually say no, I quit and to go out onto this, this high wire and try to balance there. You know, I’m picturing like the wind blowing me and how dare I do that. And the day that I, the day that I went in and told my manager that I was quitting. Number one, she was stunned. Number two, she almost talked me into staying number three, I had to go home from that shift with a migraine. I stressed myself because I was so upset about this, this anathema thing that I was doing my whole goal, my whole adult life had been not to lose a job, like to do everything perfectly, so I would never lose a job. And here I was losing a job on purpose. I know.

How did it go for you when you quit?

Sacha Black
My boss knew I saw I sat down and he and he just it must be has been written all over my face like the haha fuck you I’m going. See you, fuck you bye, you know? Because he was like, oh you’re leaving aren’t you? And I was like YEAAAH

Rachael Herron
but you thought this is such an interesting question the way you ask it to because you are a rebel if you’re looking at it like Gretchen Reubens, four tendencies. I’m sure you’re a rebel. My wife is a rebel, I am an upholder. I uphold everyone’s expectations about myself, including my own. And so to throw a good job into the air like that, I’m still I’m still shaking almost four years later. So that was that was a rebel thing that I did.

Sacha Black
Yeah, no, but it’s it’s just one of the best I love hearing people’s ‘I quit’ stories. Like Yeah, I love it. I am. Yeah, the rebel thing is so funny. I am so rebellious. I will also argue with myself over things. It’s just it’s so it’s infuriating. It’s like deadlines. Like I love my Myers Briggs is it N TJ although I’m E/I borderline so I’m sometimes I’m really I and then sometimes I’m really E but so I really like structure and deadlines but God damn it if I put a deadline on myself I will do everything to rebel against it like it’s just what is wrong with me?

Okay so tell readers where they can find out more about you and your books and your Patreon and your podcasts and all of your things.

Rachael Herron
Everything can be found at RachaelHerron.com and of interest to your listeners might be the for writers tab and I send I have a email which I normally send out a weekly email encouragement which I have been doing recently because I have been just lazing around but there’s that Patreon is patreon.com/rachael I also lead retreats. And that’s a fun one. If you want to sign up for the writers, I’m going to Barcelona in April. And I think I still have a couple slots there. So that’s all available from the for writers page on RachaelHerron.com. Oh, and the podcasts are the writers well, which I co host with Jay Thorne. And we just talked about the experience of being a writer we always bring one of us brings the other question that they don’t know about in advance, and then we have to really talk about it. And we are very honest, they can be very, very deep heart difficult questions. And they can be very light and soft. But luckily, he’s soft balled me yesterday. So that’s, that’s excellent. And then my podcast is just called How do you write and I speak with writers about their processes because I’m always looking for the magic bullet that will make my own process easy, and I haven’t found it yet. So keep the podcast going. And at some point, Sacha Black will be on there too.

Sacha Black
I was drooling. listening to you talk about Venice, by the way. I was like, oh god, I so want to go to Venice. But yeah, that’s sounded amazing.

Rachael Herron
I’ve done that a few times. That’ll be 2021. I’ll be going back there.

Sacha Black
No, I know. I know. That’s why don’t tell me that I have to confront my wife over it. Yeah, yes. Okay, well, thank you very much for your time. And thank you also to all of the patrons supporting the show. If you would like to get early access to all of the episodes as well as exclusive and bonus Patreon only content you can do so by going to www.patreon.com/Sachablack.

Rachael Herron
And she really appreciates that. You guys. Go join.

Sacha Black
I really love you guys. Thank you to everybody listening. Thank you to our wonderful guest today. I’m Sacha Black, you we’re listening to Rachel Heron and this was The Rebel Author Podcast.

If you enjoyed this post, you might like these from the podcast archive:

013 How to Write Diverse Characters with Joan Dempsey

008 – Amazon Ads for Authors with Bryan Cohen

The post 015 Multiple Streams of Income for Authors with Rachael Herron appeared first on Sacha Black.

Episode questions:

1. Do you read the show transcript?

2. What one thing you’re going to do to better your financial situation after listening to this podcast?

More about our guest, Zach Bohannon:

Website – www.zachbohannon.com

The Career Author: Podcast and Events – www.thecareerauthor.com

Zach’s Fiction at Molten Universe Media – www.moltenuniversemedia.com

Episode 44 – Money Tips For the Aspiring Career Author: https://thecareerauthor.com/the-career-author-podcast-episode-44-money-tips-for-the-aspiring-career-author/ 

***

Rebel Author merch is now live. I’m working with Icy to create some new designs so those will come on stream shortly. But you can still get mugs and journals and jumpers and stickers and all sorts, check the show notes for links.

https://www.redbubble.com/people/rebelauthor/shop?asc=u

Listener rebel of the week is Sam Ross

If you’d like to be a Rebel of the week please do send in your story, it can be any kind of rebellion. You can email your rebel story to rebelauthorpodcast@gmail.com or tweet me @rebelauthorpod

To use Suzie Speak’s Social Media Management Service find out more here: https://suzie81speaks.com/social-media-management-services/

If you’d like to support the show, and get access to all the bonus essays, posts and content, you can support the show by visiting: www.patreon.com/sachablack

Book Recommendations this week:

The Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey

Kobo https://www.kobo.com/ebook/the-total-money-makeover-classic-edition

Amazon UK https://amzn.to/36Qc5PC

Amazon USA https://amzn.to/2td8yfC

The Barefoot Investor by Scott Pape

Kobo https://www.kobo.com/ebook/the-barefoot-investor

Amazon UK https://amzn.to/2Rbipuu

Amazon USA https://amzn.to/2Tqhzgd

The Millionaire Next Door by William D. Danko and Thomas J Stanley

Kobo https://www.kobo.com/ebook/the-millionaire-next-door-6

Amazon UK https://amzn.to/36KMZBD

Amazon USA https://amzn.to/2Nnjxdk

Playing with Fire by Scott Rieckens

Kobo https://www.kobo.com/ebook/playing-with-fire-financial-independence-retire-early

Amazon UK https://amzn.to/380d4N7

Amazon USA https://amzn.to/2sm4w4f

Choose FI by Chris Mamula, Brad Barret and Jonathan Mendonsa

Kobo https://www.kobo.com/ebook/choose-fi

Amazon UK https://amzn.to/2TkYAmY

Amazon USA https://amzn.to/3a7KHOT

Please note these are affiliate links.

Episode Transcript Authors and Money: How to Quit Your Job and Write Full-Time with Zach Bohannon

Sacha Black
Hello, and welcome back to The Rebel Author Podcast. Today I am with Zach Bohannon. Zach writes science fiction and fantasy, nonfiction books for authors, and is the host of The Career Author podcast, as well as the co host and organizer of unique author events, such as authors on a train and the career author summit. Hello, and welcome. Thank you so much for joining me.

Zach Bohannon
Hey, Sacha, how you doing?

Sacha Black
I am really good. And for anybody listening who hasn’t listened to The Career Author podcast, I absolutely love it and I highly recommend the podcast so please do go and check it out. And I will make sure that all of the links are in the show notes. I’ve also voted on your, your, your, your event,

Zach Bohannon
The poll we did. Yeah, I can guess where you probably voted

Sacha Black
it. Yeah. And so I will edit that out. But anyway, and welcome. And thank you for joining me today. And

Zach Bohannon
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. And thank you for the kind words about the podcast.

Sacha Black
Oh, I speak only the truth. Everybody knows that brutal Truth and Honesty for me. So can you tell listeners a little bit more about you and your journey and how you got into full time writing?

Zach Bohannon
Yeah, so I’ve been I’ve been full time since 2017. I published my first novel and right at the beginning of 2015. Of course, as I know, a lot of people listening and other authors, you know, like it’s, I’ve always written blah, blah, blah, all that stuff. I’m actually spent. I spent the majority of my 20s trying to be a rock musician, so I played drums and heavy metal bands and I wrote lyrics And one of those bands and so always, and always wanted to write, and of course, you know, had tried starting novels and never finished a thing. And I finally just kind of decided to do it. And, you know, my first novel did really well. And, you know, it just I just kept publishing and it led to me to the opportunity to go full time and 2017 after a nudge from Joanna Penn, telling me, it was it was time so

Sacha Black
And just tell everybody a little bit more about some of the events because they are amazing, and I am so jealous of everybody going to the one in New Orleans over Halloween, but just just tell everybody about the events that you run.

Zach Bohannon
Yeah, so of course I do the podcast with Jay Thorne. You may hear his name come up several times through this because we do the podcast together. We also write we’ve written over a dozen fiction books together. We run a publishing company together and we do these events together as well. So we do, we have two different we have really two or three different types of events.

We do. Of course, we do the bigger conference. So we have The Career Author Summit. Some people may have heard it as the Sell More Books Summit previously, but it was rebranded for this next year to the career authors summit. We’ve done two of those in Chicago so far and we have it in Nashville in May of 2020. It’s sold out so no one’s gonna be able to get tickets but uh, but as we have that, which is like a larger conference, when I say larger, it’s a round we sell, I think around 120 tickets, hundred 150 tickets. And, like, the biggest piece of feedback we’ve gotten is not to get bigger than that and we really liked that size. So we plan on keeping around that we don’t plan on going a bigger and luckily, you know, the our motivation for doing that is not necessarily money, which we’re going to talk about a lot. So, today so it’s it’s, you know, we don’t really have to get we can keep people’s risk. With that,

We also do these really unique world building events. And those are pretty neat because they’re literally one of a kind. So you mentioned one which we still have tickets available for in 2020. And that is vampires of New Orleans.

Sacha Black
Don’t tempt me

Zach Bohannon
So we’re going to get a new one. So we’re going to New Orleans Halloween weekend of 2020. Halloween is on a Saturday, we’re going to have our event Thursday and Friday, and then if people want to spend the weekend in New Orleans, you should if you’re going down there cuz that’s the best time to be there. But that’s one of our world building events. So basically, we get 15 authors in a room with us. And there it is kind of a workshop to like Jay and I do some teaching, but what the bulk of it is, is we go okay, we’re gonna we’re going to sit together and everyone’s gonna sit in this room and we build a world out together. So in that instance, we’re going to like kind of come up with a vampire world. Timeline come up with rules for our vampires, all type of stuff. And then everyone will go away after the event and write stories that are written in that world. And then we publish the anthology with all the stories when it’s over, and we donate all proceeds to charity and stuff. So it’s really cool. We’ve also done Night of the Writing Dead, which was, which is in Pittsburgh and celebration of 50, the 50th anniversary of Night of the Living Dead. And we’ve done rock apoc, which was an apocalyptic world building event we did like at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Cleveland, which was awesome. We also did sci fi Seattle, which was we did aside we built the space opera world together in Seattle. That was just a few weeks ago or last month.

And yeah, so the cool thing about those events is they’re unique as we like to tell people, you know, I’m not trying to tempt you, I promise. But, but people will say that I’ll just come next year and will, there’s not going to be a next year for that particular event. So like, we’re only going to, we can only celebrate Night Living Dead once and do the zombie event. So yeah, so those events are unique. And then the other one and kind of one that J and I are probably most known for his authors on a train. And if anyone is I’m sure most of us know Joanna Penn’s podcast. So you probably heard about there a couple years ago when me and Jay and her and Lindsay broker all took the train from Chicago to New Orleans. And we wrote a book together in a week, J, and I turn that into an event where we take authors with us and so we’ve done a couple of those. We’ve done that same trip in Chicago, New Orleans. And this January, we’re going to be going from LA to San Francisco on the train and rent a mansion up in that area, and we’re all staying together and going to collaborate on some stories. So that’s a fun one. That’s kind of one we’re probably known for the most. So that’s kind of I guess in a nutshell some of some of the events we do so.

Sacha Black
I think that’s so cool and completely unique as well you don’t you hear a lot of conferences and one day events and stuff, but you don’t hear these more unique niche type events, especially in places like New Orleans which is so full of inspiration for authors.

Zach Bohannon
Yeah, or like, you know, when we did the rock apoc one we’re in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and the VIP room and stuff and it was, it was really it was really neat. So and those events are fun, like I said, just with 15 authors, and we’re just world building and and it’s it’s awesome. People come up with story pitches and pitch their stories and stuff it’s just awesome, like the collaborative effort that goes into those events. so

Sacha Black
fabulous. I hope I can one day make them and if you ever venture this side of the world, I will definitely be making one. Okay, so on to the topic of our discussion. Which is money. While it’s not always the case for every author I know, I think most indie authors want to write full-time. I think that’s probably why they choose to go indie rather than being traditional. And I think a huge part of that is around financial freedom and earning enough money. And yet, I find that money is still a really taboo topic in the indie world. I would love to get rid of that taboo and that was why I approached you in the first place for this podcast. So what do you think are the key steps an author would need to take financially in order to quit their job?

Zach Bohannon
Well, the first thing I’ll say is just put a disclaimer that I am not a financial expert. So this is just a topic that both both of us are really passionate about. Like you said, we you know, there’s a lot of taboos around money especially in our circles and stuff and it’s just something that really interests me and something that like you I’m trying to kind of get rid of and I’m really passionate about so but that being said, I’m not a financial experts. So talk to an accountant or a financial expert don’t take our advice necessarily.

Um, you know, the big thing for me is I think that you really have to ask yourself, like, how bad do you really want to do this? And what does being a full time writer look like for you? And what what kind of life is that going to allow you to live? And the reason I say that is because one of the things that I see in the author community that and honestly, it really kind of drives me a little nuts is the idea of always talking about success in terms of royalties and money. And that drives me crazy. Obviously, we need money to live. Money is an ends to a means we need to be making money to make this happen. If you’re not earning, then it’s going to be hard for you to be full time and to do this, but like I just you know, and I’m not on social media anymore. And this is a big reason why honestly. But when I was spent a lot of time in author groups and stuff, you would see people brag about, oh, I made this much money this month. And everyone’s like, Oh, I really wish I could do that and bought and my question is always, like, why do you need to make that much like, and we don’t know the stories that those authors have. It may look like they’re making buckets of money, but they could be in a ton of debt or something like that.

Sacha Black
Are they spending it on advertising?

Zach Bohannon
Or absolutely, you’re exactly right they could be spent on advertising. There’s a lot of different things to look at, you know, and some authors will share that like some authors will say, well, this is how much money I actually am making. This is like my take home.But like, I don’t know, for me, it’s like, obviously, money is important, but that my big motivation for being able to do this is not to have money to be able to buy more things or to be able to do this or that. It’s to be able to do this to be able to make my own schedule to be free. You know, for instance, this Friday, my daughter is getting an award at her school and it’s like a secret that she doesn’t even know about, and I’m going to be able to be there. And it’s all and like, I don’t have to ask anybody I don’t have to take off from work. I can just go like, I’m just like, Okay, cool. That’s easy. To me, that’s success. That is more. That’s how I define success more than I define how much money I’m making. Or you know, that’s that’s that’s not hard to find success. I define success by the fact that my daughter when she was in her daycare. There was a there’s a thing called donuts with dad. One more Morning, and I got to go. And I was one of only four dads there and a 15 kid class and kids were crying because their dads weren’t there. And like, understand because they have other jobs, and it’s probably hard for him to ask for something, but like, that’s type of stuff I don’t have to miss. So to me that’s been successful.

So to go back to your original question, um, you know, to me, really think about, you know, if you really want this… I get asked all the time, I get asked, you know, how do you make enough money to go full time? And to me, that’s kind of the wrong question, because it’s not… I’ll be really honest, like, I’m not rolling in the dough and royalties. You know, and I’m definitely not primarily making my income off fiction, these events and stuff definitely help. Even though some of these events don’t necessarily, you know, pull a lot of money in but I’ve built my life to where I just don’t need a lot of money. I think that’s the real key is that I don’t have a debt you know, that’s the bit don’t have a ton of debt. That’s the big thing other than a mortgage, I mean you know, my wife and I worked really hard to get out of debt. I think that’s the biggest thing anyone can do before going full time because the less bills you have to pay and less money going out the less money you need coming in. And that that’s kind of controversial for a lot of people to hear but you know, I don’t put my business stuff on credit cards or anything like that, you know, it’s just not the way that I want to live and so to me, that’s the biggest thing and then just also I’m you know, I kind of live a minimalist lifestyle, I don’t really need a lot of stuff. So to me I would rather be doing this. You know, I would rather be making my own schedule and not be not having to miss things that my kid and being able to like live the life I want. This way, you know, if my schedule then like, have a bunch of stuff or have a bunch of payments on things or be paying the bank. So to me, I think that’s really because the quickest sell, the quickest way to give yourself a raise is to spend less money. So and I think the less you have going, especially to creditors and stuff like that, the better off you’re going to be. And I know it’s not the answer a lot of people want to hear, but it’s just something I really feel strongly. And I, I know from talking to you before that, I think you have similar beliefs.

Sacha Black
They’re 100% I’m like, I’m nodding furiously back here, because I’m like, oh, all of the points. I just agree with all of them. I think, when I was in full time employment, I was constantly stressed because I had to leave at certain times to pick up my son and, and and if I didn’t, and then that, you know, what if I was late and blah, blah, blah, and it is so stressful, and now I’m just like, yeah, I need to go now. So I’m gonna go now and it’s completely you know, I’m completely free. But I think there’s a couple of points there. And that I wanted to come back on and the first one is something that I heard recently and I I think it was in a Rich Dad Poor Dad, audiobook, but one person’s asset is another person’s liability. So where you were talking about reducing debt, any debt that you have, you know, is the bank’s asset. Your debt is making them money. So they make their money. Exactly, exactly. And the other point, which was such an epiphany for me when it happened a few years ago, is that if you have paid off all of your debt, and let’s say you’re spending 500 quid a month or $500, or whatever, a month on paying back debt, you just don’t need that money, which means the bar for which you have to earn in order to survive is that much lower. Now, you know, nobody saying that you’re going to earn that forever. Nobody wants to just earn the you know what you have to earn. But if you want to get out, that’s the way to get out you know, so I just I you It was such a, I just I spent years not recognizing that.

Zach Bohannon
And I think for me too, is if I had a book take off tomorrow and got a movie deal and all this stuff, and I got a big, you know, whatever, like, you know, was just started making way more than I am now. Nothing really changed for me. Like, I mean, I pay my house off. And my wife and I might travel a little more than we do now. But other than that, I mean, nothing really would change. You know, I mean, so and I think that’s, that’s, that’s really really important, too.

Sacha Black
Yeah, exactly. My friend and I’m going to name drop her because she’ll, she’ll appreciate this. But Suzie always says to me, she wanted to create a life she didn’t want to take a vacation from I think that’s how you say it.

Zach Bohannon
That’s how I feel. Yeah. And I’ll tell you too, I’m going back to something else that you said was, you know, talking about the banks, you know, one of the biggest thing I hear from from… I’ve one friend specifically who is really into credit cards but he you know, he pays off the balance every month, which is a dangerous game to play, like a lot of people will say… Because if you miss a month or miss two months or then all of a sudden you’ve got this interest, but he does it for the points and my questions alway like, and I think Dave Ramsey says this he’s who you’re probably gonna hear me mention a lot but like, Do you know any millionaires he became that way based off credit card points? Like that’s just a marketing ploy from from the creditors because they want you to use their credit card and hopes that you’re not going to pay it off. And I guarantee you that the cashback you’re getting if you do start missing payments is going to be way less than the interest you’re going to pay.

Sacha Black
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That is one of the there are various books that I have read on this topic and all of them without exception, and cash rich is the only way forward.

Zach Bohannon
Essentially and then the ones that go the other way I won’t mention it but there’s a pretty popular finance book out there right now. That’s that’s kind of making the round and J actually loves it. And it’s one thing we disagree on but the book starts off talking about how to take advantage of your credit cards. I put the book down immediately. I was like, I just don’t I mean, I went a little bit further but I just so disagreed with it. I was just like, this is it was like don’t budget and and then was talking about credit cards take advantage. I’m like, Okay, this is it’s just not for me. And I just, you know, I have a plan that’s worked for me. I’m just gonna stick.

Sacha Black
Exactly, exactly. I mean, I probably would have put that down as well. Budgeting is the way that I got to leave my job and pay off all the all the student debt and all of that stuff. So yeah, I’m, yeah, I’m shell shocked. How can there be a finance broke that says that? Anyway, when I was employed, I was at risk of redundancy on a number of occasions. Being a business owner now obviously carries inherent risk. But what can an indie author do with their business to safeguard themselves from financial Jeopardy?

Zach Bohannon
It’s a really, really good question. And I think one thing to recognize is, and this is gonna be tough for people to hear, who just want to write. There are very few and far between it’s very, there are very few authors out there who are just making money off their fiction. I’m assuming, you know, this is for for fiction authors to nonfiction is obviously a different thing, because usually there’s other things going on that.

And I totally agree. Now, and you know, hopefully, one day it comes to a point where you can get to that point where you can just make money and maybe you can because maybe you have everyone’s situation is going to be different. So maybe maybe you’re in a position where you’re your partner is making enough money to really support you and you don’t have to do that. So it’s going to be a little different for other for different people. But I think that’s a big thing is to think about other ways you can, you know, have other revenue streams, you know, we I mentioned, we’re doing these events. And I said earlier, and you know, our main motivation is not money, but that is a motivation. That is, it is another revenue stream for us. And, you know, Jay, he does a lot of coaching, I do a little bit of that, but not very much J. But J does quite a bit. He does some editing and stuff, too. But we have multiple revenue streams, we’re not just depending on our book royalties. And so I think thinking of a skill you can take to use and maybe it’s related to authors, maybe you’re really good at crafts, and you can might have an Etsy shop that you’re doing stuff with. If you are in a job if you’re stuck in a cubicle and you’re trying to get out of that and you want to be able to create your own schedule and have more time to write and more thing, more time to do the essential things that you really want to do. I think that’s something you really have to think about.

But so I think one of the biggest things you can do is, you know, have multiple revenue streams and what I’m when I say multiple revenue streams, one of the things that immediately comes people’s mind is they think, oh, well, okay, well, should I be in KU or should I have my books wide and that’s not what I’m talking about. That’s obviously one decision you have to make, but that’s not the type of diversification of income I’m talking about. I’m talking about, what other skills do you have, that you can use to create this life for yourself? You’re going to be writing you can make that your primary thing, but you might have to do some other things to make money, like do some other type of freelance work. And this is one thing that Joanna you know, she’ll send me and J a message every now and then and she’s always asking are you still diversifying income or you do have other revenue streams? And she puts a lot of emphasis on that.

Sacha Black
Yeah, and I would add to that, to to me think about. So I always talk about money and in terms of two types of money, there’s active money and passive money. And Passive money is the obvious one for authors, it’s earning money whilst you sleep, it’s creating a product that you can sell over and over again that will bring you money in your sleep you earn passively from it. And then active money is anything that requires you to trade your time in order to get paid. So for example, being a consultant, perhaps you leave your job but you go back and you consult one day a week, or you teach or you know, you do editing, for example, and you mentioned editing there, that would be an active type of income and I think when you first… certainly for me anyway, I found having left my job I’m so afraid of, you know, not being able to pay my bills that I over egged to the active income and have probably traded a bit too much of my time. But it’s about that balance and understanding it but that is something that I would say to anybody and planning on being self-employed is to think about the balance and and actually make sure you do have a bit of both because obviously active income is short sharp cash injections, whereas passive income you have to build and it is slightly slower. Yeah, okay, so, do you have any tips or tricks for budgeting? How do you go from loads of debt to actually being able to quit?

Zach Bohannon
Well, I think the first thing is you need to do it. I think you know, a lot of people it’s something they just kind of ignore like a toothache and pretend like it’s going to go away or it’s going to fix itself and I think that… I’m not saying that you need to necessarily sit down and be looking at your money every single day and have like, you know, update spreadsheets every day, but I think you need to have an idea of where your money’s going. Because it can really, really surprise you. You know, you’ll hear the analogy and I know some people are tired of hearing this. But, you know, you’ll hear a lot of financial people say, you know, you can’t be drinking lattes every day. And, like when you really add up how much that cost, and you throw on top of that, that you might not just be having a latte or coffee every day, but maybe you’re also going to lunch and spending 10 bucks at lunch and when you add that up, like that, that’s what happened to me. When I started adding that stuff up. I was like, holy crap, I’m spending this much money just going out to eat for one meal a day and then also again, a coffee in the morning and it really woke me up and made me realize okay, maybe I can cut back on this.

But here’s the thing, the numbers don’t lie. So but you need to know what those numbers are. And you need to know exactly where your money’s going. And, you know, as far as getting out of debt, I think that as I mentioned, I really like Dave Ramsey, and I, you know, he’s kind of, you know, big anti-debt guy. And he’s local to me as well. He’s here in Nashville, Tennessee and stuff, but he’s got a national radio show here in the US and stuff as well. And his book, The Total Money Makeover to me, that’s the one book I recommend everybody. But uh, he’s got a really good plan called the snowball effect. And he’s got different baby steps.

But basically, just to kind of give a few like, the first thing is you save a $1,000 emergency fund. So that’s the first thing you do. And again, like it may, it may sound daunting to some people. How am I supposed to save $1,000 But again, if you go back and you start, you start looking at where you can cut, it’ll come away faster than you think it will. So you do that. And then if you have debt, you look at all your debts, you write them all down and you start knocking them out, except for your mortgage mortgage comes later. You don’t worry about that one. But all your other debts, credit cards, car payments, student loans, all that you start knocking out from the smallest to the largest, so doesn’t and I’m talking about smallest like amount that you owe. So don’t worry about the interest rate, all that stuff, you just pay minimum payments on everything else. But you really start throwing everything extra you can towards the smaller amounts. And the reason you do that is because you’re, it’s a mental thing. So once you start knocking out the smaller debts, you’re going to, it’s going to motivate you, you know, if you try to tackle your $40,000 student loan first, you’re probably going to really, and you’re probably really going to just want to give up after a while so but if you can get the small victories.

It’s just like writing a book. you get through a chapter in a chapter. And then once you finish one book, it’s like, oh, my God, I’m ready to do another one. So that’s kind of his plan. You do that. And you’re also another thing and some people don’t agree with this, but you’re not contributing towards retirement when you’re doing that either. So you put off your retirement that comes later, which I know a lot of people won’t agree with, but the fact the matter is you’re looking at getting like a 12% long term return on your retirement. And that doesn’t really help if you’re paying 21% interest on a credit card right now. So, you know, you can say you’ll have all this money to save later if you don’t have these debts. It’s like you said, if it’s not there, you can put your money other places. So, but basically, you just knock them out small ones. And then once you get past that you start paying on your house and you start paying, I believe, it’s like 20, he recommends either 15 or 20%, like 20% towards retirement at that point, and he recommends mutual funds, which I that’s what I invest in. So yeah, that’s that’s pretty much his book, The Total Money Makeover, really kind of lines on that. It’s, it’s, it helped me and my wife get out of debt really fast. And when we got out of we were lucky not to have student loans. But we got out of like, I think, probably around $20,000 worth of debt in a really short amount of time. Yeah, I think it was maybe under a year. I mean, it was pretty fast. But it may have been a little longer than that. I don’t know this was several years ago now but uh, but we got out pretty fast because like, once you really see where your money’s going and you really think about this stuff, you know and and, and one thing he says I love is live like no one else so that tomorrow you can live like no one else. So you might have to give up those lattes for a while, like and I think temporary deprivation is okay. But like later on, that stuff’s not going to matter because you’re not going to have all this other, you’re not gonna have this debt and stress to worry about and you can you know, you’ll have more to do with your money, the stuff you want to do. So,

Sacha Black
Yeah, I totally agree, even on the days where freelancing and being self employed is difficult. I would never, ever change it in a million years. And if you know a couple of years of deprivation is what it took to get me here. Well, I would do that every day of the week.

Zach Bohannon
And I think once you really get into really get on the plan like that and you really get into it like you’ll be surprised where money will start coming from you know you’re you’re probably going to want to sell things. You might be you might start a brain on the weekend you might go deliver pizza I mean maybe pick up more freelance gigs like you’re going to really want to get this debt and stuff paid off as fast as you can. And and like I said, it really set me up to be at a point where where it was really when it came time I stayed in my job longer than I should have honestly and when I finally quit like it was, we’re in good shape so.

Sacha Black
Amazing. And I’m going to ask the same question, but this time in terms of business so I know it’s hard and what I found it hard certainly at the beginning to know where to spend money in my in my business. I definitely got carried away with the latest thing and some of them were useful like Vellum, but you know, you can end up hemorrhaging money. And being on ads or software or gadgets or whatever. So any budgeting tips or tricks to know what’s a good spend of money on your business and what’s a bad spend of money?

Zach Bohannon
I mean, that’s I think that’s going to depend from person to person. I know for me, I keep my business really lean. And I came from a job where I was able to learn from somebody who was very frugal, I would say, he is if and this is another good book recommendation, if anyone has read the Millionaire Next Door. That was my old boss, Mitch, he was like the epitome of that he’s a millionaire. But he buys all his clothes at Goodwill. He buys used vehicles with cash, like he’s the epitome of that person. But he taught me a lot about just running a really lean business and not spending money where you didn’t need to. And to some people, it sounds a little extreme, but when you really sit back and think about it, and it’s your money now going out and you really are like okay. So to me I think first off, it’s important to realize like we are running a business. If you’re wanting to be an author, I don’t care if you’re independent, or if you’re traditionally published. I mean, I’ve seen a French traditionally published marketing plan lately and I’m like, Oh, well, they’re still going to be paying for water and party and doing water and stuff. And this was, you know, traditionally published Big Five house obviously, you know, it’s, you’re, you’re running a business, it’s gonna, it’s gonna cost some money, you’re gonna have to have a marketing budget, and there’s gonna be some things you have to pay for. What kind of bums me out is when I see people complain about stuff costing too much, and I think about, you know, lucky we are that we don’t have that much overhead.

One of my best friends start a coffee roasting business recently, and before he could even sell a coffee bean. He had to put $25,000 into it because he had to build a place he had to get a roaster. Yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of he had to get a website built for online ordering. I mean, there’s a lot of stuff he had to do. This is actually my same friend. I have the credit card points debate with money. David, I know you’ll never listen to us. He’s not an author. He’s not gonna care. But uh, but I think just, you know, it’s really easy to get distracted as you’re saying like the newest gadget or I’ve seen people stress about like, oh, like what writing software should I use? Should I get this or that? And I think that there’s, to me there’s it doesn’t matter what you write in. Yes, Scrivener is great. I think Scrivener is probably the best thing but in Scrivener is only 40 bucks. So like don’t beat yourself up for Scrivener. But other than that, you know, you’re going to need a mailing list there’s you can you have to pay for that at some point, you know, MailChimp I know you can start for free but at some point you’re going to pay. You’re going to need some kind of advertising budget especially as you get more books. It’s funny, we just record an episode about that advertising with career author and J and I are in a really weird place with that because I don’t know like I think unless you have a long series like spending too much money on advertising doesn’t really is kind of hard, but It’s also a thing it’s also a thing where it’s kind of necessary. So now I’m in a weird place with that but and then always my two non negotiables for sure is always pay for good editor. And always pay for a good cover designer unless you are a cover designer. Not Photoshop, not I know how to do Photoshop, but you actually can design covers. And I know very few authors who are good cover designers who can make their own covers, you should pay someone who can do it well and do it in your genre that and as I said, pay pay a freelancer to edit your book. And at least do line edits and stuff. I think those are two non negotiable. And again, it’s not that much money and like especially for the business we’re running. It’s very, very, very low overhead. So when I see people complain about that, I’m just like, go try to start a coffee roasting business or a restaurant or something like that, where you’re going to spend thousands of dollars before you can even make a penny. Yeah, so very, very low.

Sacha Black
Yeah, I can Completely agree and I think it’s a mindset shift, I think, yes, when you are writing a series, you are probably going to have to sink a few thousand pounds on covers and edits, you know in that series. But the whole point is, you will make that money back millions of times over over the course of the years because you’re creating something that can pay you back forever. A whole lifetime plus 50 or 70 years, depending on whatever country you’re in, so it is a bit of a mindset shift. And I think the same can be said around the advertising. And I also am not advertising my current fiction because I’m waiting until I finish this third book because what’s the point that you know, you can’t most most people obviously will reduce the first one and then you’ll get the read through but the the with that advertising you I think it’s the same mindset shift in that if you if you have got the data to say, you’re spending $10 and you’re making $100 then why would you not want to spend $100 to make $1,000 and but that that mindset shift to spend that money is very difficult. I think a lot of people are afraid I think there’s a lot of fear around around that. But

Zach Bohannon
You should be investing in yourself to like I think it’s important to you know, buy courses you know, my books obviously like educate yourself on craft stuff like that go to events go to off go to conferences, I mean, you should be invested in yourself as well. But you know, try not to get too caught up with you know, the latest gadget or, or whatever. I mean, I wrote a lot of my first books like on a 10 year old laptop sitting in the back of my car on my lunch break. So like it wasn’t, you know, I think on like Scrivener or sometimes even on like Google Drive which is free. So I mean really like you shouldn’t have to invest like don’t try not to get too caught up because in a lot of times on honestly, that’s resistance and I’m talking about like resistance with a capital R like Steven pressfield talks. Yeah, you’re just, you know, just write. ,

Sacha Black
Yeah, exactly. I used to write down the corridor on my phone waiting for meetings, or people to meetings, like, I kind of wish I still I don’t quite know what’s happened to that girl. I definitely have some resistance issues now. But yeah, I think you know, that is it. Write anywhere, anytime, anyplace, you know, no excuses. And, okay, so I think you’ve probably answered this question, but I’ll just ask it in cases anything else you can take off but I’m key books or resources you would recommend. I know you’ve mentioned a couple.

Zach Bohannon
Yeah, those are my two favorites. As I mentioned The Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey. And then the now I just forgot it’s a Millionaire Next Door. Yeah, what is the other big one? I can Remember the author on that one, but those are those are the my two by far like favorite financial books and the two that I’d recommend the most. And Dave Ramsey has a podcast and he has a national radio show, but they do a podcast version of it. So people can go listen to it and hearing. So he’ll have people call in and talk about how they got a debt and how fast and it is amazing to hear some stories and it’s like super inspiring and encouraging. When you hear how much debt people got through with some of the with the income they have, like if you’re sitting at home saying I’m not sure I can do this, like you’d be really surprised by some stuff people can do if you just, you know, sit down, put your mind to it and focus on it. But those going back those are my those are the two big books I personally would recommend.

Sacha Black
Yeah, I will add another one. Because why not? But I haven’t. I read the Barefoot Investor and he has a very similar ethos to Dave Ramsey and some of the things you were saying about saving a thousand pounds and doing the domino. And all in there as well. Yeah. So I think it’s Scott Pope or Pape. If you heard scribbles on my mic, it’s because I was noticing them down, because I’ll make sure they’re in the show notes. Okay, so I have a question that from Patrick, who is a patron, and he says, most authors, I know, seem content with building a publishing business, which is a great way to create passive income. But what are your thoughts on diversifying one’s asset portfolio by using a publishing company as a springboard into unrelated sectors such as property investment and the stock market market? I know you kind of alluded to this a bit earlier. So yeah, what are your thoughts?

Zach Bohannon
Well, if you as I’ve said, if you don’t have debt other than a mortgage, like if you have a mortgage, that doesn’t count, but if you don’t really have debt, then you absolutely should be investing in the stock market and thinking about your future, again, like 15 to 20% of whatever you have coming back, you should definitely be investing in property investment, I think is a really good. I mean, that’s really I know, a couple authors who actually do that, who have, you know, done pretty well. Though I’m talking about like authors who’ve, like seven figures, and that’s one way they’ve diversified their income, obviously, that’s riskier and, and and going to be there’s a lot more money there, but uh, and you kind of know what you’re doing. But I think that that’s, that’s a really good investment. And then yeah, so I think that I think those are I think if you’re in the right financial position, and you know, you’re not, you don’t have a bunch of debt overheads. I think that’s real. I think those are both really good things. And again, if you kind of know what you’re doing so, yeah,

Sacha Black
yeah, absolutely. I’m just reading. What’s it called? Rich Dad. Poor dad’s guide to investing no reading and listening. I’m listening to the audiobook For because I am just about, you know, now starting to be interested in that area as well. And it’s interesting, actually, because this is a conversation I’m having with several authors at the moment who are all starting to think about actually, you know, how else can they earn money passively? Yeah, I think this is I think this is going to become a trend in with indies anyway. Right. This is The Rebel Author podcast. So tell me about a time you unleash your inner rebel.

Zach Bohannon
I know it’s cliche, but I guess it’s probably when I quit my job. That’s like the best thing I could probably think of. As I said earlier, I waited way too long. I should have left way sooner. Again, we were in a really good financial situation. You know, my wife’s a massage therapist. And you know, so she’s got a job she loves, you know, only having to work four days a week which is awesome. So really, really rad but uh yeah, that that was probably it. I mean, and I’ve told this story in other podcast but I know the moment that I wanted to leave and it was…

I’ll keep the story short but basically I was a warehouse manager for an operations manager for a big music instrument distributor like worldwide and for the North American facility and I’d like 15 employees I manage and stuff but I would get in the office really early every day and I’d beat all the bad traffic here in Nashville and I get there early and I’d work on my writing business in the building I had a key and stuff is no big deal. And I would get there right and I would still like get to my desk like 15 years sometimes even 30 minutes early and start working. And and one one night the cleaners who worked at our place stole the president of our company’s laptop.

And the next day my boss came to me, it was like, yeah, we’re not going to be able to let you come in the building anymore. And they weren’t accusing me of doing it by name or like doing anything might, but it was more just like for your safety too. And I totally understood. I was like, that’s cool. I understand kind of sucks. And it kind of bummed me and kind of pissed me off, because there were other people that got to come to the building, like on the weekends and work, which was like, what’s the difference? But anyways, but the part of that conversation that I didn’t like, and this is where I put everything together later when I was like, oh, they’re letting this guy come in on the weekends and work when no one’s here and do stuff was he said, he said to me. Well, you know, honestly, like, I really don’t think you should be writing in the morning before you come to work. And I was like, Oh, okay. So the and this was my direct boss, not the President or company but and And just to be clear, like, I have a I have a good relationship with this person. No, ill will. And he wasn’t a creative so he didn’t he didn’t understand that by telling me that and by suggesting that, that… Cuz his whole thing was like, I’m not sure if you’re like really focused when you come in, it’s like, No, dude. It’s the opposite. If I don’t do this for comments, all I’m going to think about and I’m going to be thinking about is when I get to my lunch and when I get home from work, and I can actually work on this, but I was able to come in like knowing I’ve already written like, 2000 words this morning or whatever, I feel good. I can focus on my work now. That was the moment I knew, Okay, I’m done. And I stopped. I started getting to my desk right when I was supposed to because I had to start going to a coffee shop and work sometimes write in my car. And but I knew then, but it was about probably, I think it was less maybe a year after that. And when we were on authors on train trip, and on that last night, we were all kind of drinking and Joanna had a few drinks in her and she looked at me and she said, can I cuss on your podcast, by the way I forgot. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Joanna, I love this because Joanna hates dropping the F bomb and I’m gonna call it out. She looked at me and she said you’re fucking scared. And, and she’s really like, the sweetest person ever. But she’s kind of intimidating in person when you meet her. And I was like, oh, wow, okay. And because the whole week she, you know, obviously be able to talk to her about my situation and, you know, leaving my job and health care was a big deal because my wife doesn’t get health care through her job site. And I knew I was so we were that’s a whole other thing in the United States that we have to deal with. And, and anyways, join it was like you’re scared. You just need to go home and quit your job. And I was like, okay, so I came home and I told Catherine, I was like, I think I’m going to quit my job and she just goes finally, that was my wife’s reaction. She was like, finally. And so it took a slightly drunk angry British woman to tell me off. Yeah, I walked in. Once I got back to work. My boss is actually on vacation when he came back out a letter ready and I was like, I’m done and three weeks later I was gone. So I guess that was probably my most rebellious moment for sure. So

Sacha Black
That’s a funny you if you ran ahead and tells you to do something you absolutely should do whatever Joanna tells you. It’s funny because I spoke to her just before I quit and it kind of, you know, that she was like, you shouldn’t you should quit. So

Zach Bohannon
yeah, yeah, it’s, she’s awesome. And, and she was right. I mean, you know, like, and what’s the worst thing that’s going to happen? Like, my wife and I, personally are really good financial situation. My wife has a really good job. And it’s like, Okay, if it doesn’t work out, I’ll just go get another job.

Sacha Black
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Zach Bohannon
But it’s worked out that we haven’t missed any bills and we’ve been living fine. So everything’s working out just fine. So

Sacha Black
Absolutely. So if you’re listening, and you’re scared, and you’re in a good financial position, just fucking quit.

Zach Bohannon
Well, maybe get rid of some debt and stuff.

Sacha Black
Okay, tell readers where they can find out more about you your books and your podcasts.

Zach Bohannon
Well, I think for your this audience being writers, I think the best place to send them is just to thecareerauthor.com That’s where you can get information on the podcast. You can also find the podcast wherever you’re listening to this right now. It’ll be on there. But we have stuff on it. We have our podcast over there. We have our all the information on our events, where they sell out quick, and there’s a mailing list you can get on there. We’re going to be announcing our next. I know that sounds crazy, but we’re going to be announcing our 2021 events in May of 2020. At The Career Authors Summit, there’s obviously a lot of logistics and stuff that go into them. especially some of stuff that we’re thinking about. So we have to we announced them kind of far out so anyway, there’s a you can get on a waitlist over there and you’ll get information as we put them out or the star podcasts will put out but and then we have books and stuff. We have our big nonfiction thing we’re working on is we have a book coming out probably early next year maybe this year, we’re not really sure yet but uh, called the Three Story Method. And this is the process Jan I use it basically will take you from idea all the way up to getting you ready to draft your book. So it’s kind of our proven process that we’ve used on between the two of us over like 20 books now that we’ve published. So we’ll have that coming out. And there’s a there’s a three story method tab up at the top. We’re really excited about that though. And we’re going to have some courses and some kind of live events and stuff planned around that too. So people who have been through it already and come to our other events and experience are loving it. So we’re really excited to get that book out there. But that’s the best place if you are if you like post apocalyptic sci fi and you’re interested in a fiction stuff. You can go to moltenuniversemedia.com that’s probably the best place and that has all the books, that’s our publishing companies that has all my books and Jay Books and we are currently working with 10 other authors to publish them so we’ll have some other stuff coming out from other authors release.

Sacha Black
Amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you to everybody supporting on Patreon if you would like to get early access to all the episodes, you can do so by going to www.patreon.com/sachablack. Thank you to everybody listening. Thank you to Zach. I’m Sacha Black. You were listening to Zach Bohannon and this was The Rebel Author Podcast.

If you enjoyed this show, you might like these from the podcast and blog archive:

008 – Amazon Ads for Authors with Bryan Cohen

I Quit My Job – Lessons in Perseverance: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

The post 011 Authors and Money: How to Quit Your Job and Write Full-Time with Zach Bohannon appeared first on Sacha Black.

Six Months Full-Time Writing

The post Lessons Learned: Six Months Full-Time Writing appeared first on Sacha Black.