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		<title>018 How to Structure a Novel with J Thorn</title>
		<link>https://sachablack.co.uk/2020/03/04/018-how-to-structure-a-novel-with-j-thorn/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=018-how-to-structure-a-novel-with-j-thorn</link>
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		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sacha Black]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2020 08:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[The Rebel Author Podcast]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Writing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Writing Tips]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[novel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[plotting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[story structure]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[structure]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[writing]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sachablack.co.uk/?p=8992</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[<p>Hello Rebels, welcome back to The Rebel Author Podcast episode 18. Today’s podcast is with J Thorn all about how to structure a novel.</p>
<p>The post <a href="https://sachablack.co.uk/2020/03/04/018-how-to-structure-a-novel-with-j-thorn/">018 How to Structure a Novel with J Thorn</a> appeared first on <a href="https://sachablack.co.uk">Sacha Black</a>.</p>
]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img fetchpriority="high" decoding="async" class="alignleft wp-image-8998 " src="https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Rebel-Author-Pinterest-683x1024.png" alt="" width="344" height="516" srcset="https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Rebel-Author-Pinterest-683x1024.png 683w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Rebel-Author-Pinterest-660x990.png 660w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Rebel-Author-Pinterest-200x300.png 200w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Rebel-Author-Pinterest.png 735w" sizes="(max-width: 344px) 100vw, 344px" />Hello Rebels, welcome back to The Rebel Author Podcast episode 18. Today’s podcast is with J Thorn all about how to structure a novel.</p>
<p>This week’s question is: <span id="more-8992"></span></p>
<p><strong>What’s your favorite podcast? Hit me with your faves, drop links, give them some love.</strong></p>
<hr />
<h2>ANNOUNCEMENT</h2>
<p>Don&#8217;t forget I&#8217;m joining Jenna Moreci and Meg LaTorre on the <a href="http://bit.ly/iWriterlyYouTube⁠">iWriterly YouTube</a> channel TONIGHT (March 4<sup>th</sup>2020 at 3:00 pm EST) (8pm GMT) for a live stream all about how to plan a book launch. Mark your calendars you don’t want to miss this. ⁠</p>
<hr />
<h2>DIY MFA 101 COURSE IS CLOSING IN TWO DAYS</h2>
<p>To find out more about the course, use my affiliate link <a href="https://members.diymfa.com/~access/a3c4372f/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">here</a>.</p>
<hr />
<p>Book recommendation this week is J’s new book<strong> Three Story Method</strong></p>
<p><strong>Kobo:</strong> <a href="https://www.kobo.com/ebook/three-story-method">https://www.kobo.com/ebook/three-story-method</a></p>
<p><strong>Amazon UK:</strong> <a href="https://amzn.to/2Ttm87w">https://amzn.to/2Ttm87w</a></p>
<p><strong>Amazon USA:</strong> <a href="https://amzn.to/2VA2sBM">https://amzn.to/2VA2sBM</a></p>
<hr />
<h3>Listener Rebel of the Week is Katie Forrest</h3>
<p>If you’d like to be a Rebel of the week please do send in your story, it can be any kind of rebellion. You can email your rebel story to <a href="mailto:rebelauthorpodcast@gmail.com">rebelauthorpodcast@gmail.com</a> or tweet me @rebelauthorpod</p>
<p>No new Patrons today. Thank you so much for joining me and thank you to all my current patrons, who help to ensure that this podcast continues.</p>
<p>If you’d like to support the show, and get access to all the bonus essays, posts and content, you can support the show by visiting: <a href="http://www.patreon.com/sachablack">www.patreon.com/sachablack</a></p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://www.patreon.com/sachablack"><img decoding="async" class="size-medium wp-image-7852 aligncenter" src="https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Patreon-e1565000015609-300x85.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="85" srcset="https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Patreon-e1565000015609-300x85.jpg 300w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Patreon-e1565000015609-660x187.jpg 660w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Patreon-e1565000015609.jpg 750w" sizes="(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px" /></a></p>
<hr />
<h2 style="text-align: center;">THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY</h2>
<p style="text-align: center;"><strong>13 Steps to Evil: How to Craft a Superbad Villain</strong></p>
<h2><a href="https://books2read.com/13stepstoevil"><img decoding="async" class="size-medium wp-image-7537 aligncenter" src="https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/1527540528-e1527541616211-300x218.png" alt="" width="300" height="218" srcset="https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/1527540528-e1527541616211-300x218.png 300w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/1527540528-e1527541616211-660x479.png 660w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/1527540528-e1527541616211-768x557.png 768w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/1527540528-e1527541616211-1024x743.png 1024w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/1527540528-e1527541616211.png 1683w" sizes="(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px" /></a></h2>
<h2></h2>
<h2>More about the book</h2>
<p><strong>Your hero is not the most important character in your book. Your villain is.</strong></p>
<p>Are you fed up of drowning in two-dimensional villains? Frustrated with creating clichés? And failing to get your reader to root for your villain?</p>
<p><strong>In 13 Steps to Evil, you’ll discover: </strong></p>
<ul>
<li>How to develop a villain’s mindset</li>
<li>A step-by-step guide to creating your villain from the ground up</li>
<li>Why getting to the core of a villain’s personality is essential to make them credible</li>
<li>What pitfalls and clichés to avoid as well as the tropes your story needs</li>
</ul>
<p>Finally, there is a comprehensive writing guide to help you create superbad villains. Whether you’re just starting out or are a seasoned writer, this book will help power up your bad guy and give them that extra edge.</p>
<p>These lessons will help you master and control your villainous minions, navigate and gain the perfect balance of good and evil, as well as strengthening your villain to give your story the tension and punch it needs.</p>
<p>If you like dark humour, learning through examples and want to create the best villains you can, then you’ll love Sacha Black’s guide to crafting superbad villains. <strong>Read 13 Steps to Evil today and start creating kick-ass villains.</strong></p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://books2read.com/13stepstoevil " class="large square otw-button">I want to read 13 Steps to Evil</a></p>
<h2>How to Structure a Novel</h2>
<figure id="attachment_8999" aria-describedby="caption-attachment-8999" style="width: 300px" class="wp-caption alignright"><img loading="lazy" decoding="async" class="wp-image-8999 size-medium" src="https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/DSC_0194-1024x680-1-300x199.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="199" srcset="https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/DSC_0194-1024x680-1-300x199.jpg 300w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/DSC_0194-1024x680-1-660x438.jpg 660w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/DSC_0194-1024x680-1-768x510.jpg 768w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/DSC_0194-1024x680-1.jpg 1024w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px" /><figcaption id="caption-attachment-8999" class="wp-caption-text">Author and podcaster legend, J Thorn.</figcaption></figure>
<p>Find out more about J on his website <a href="http://www.theauthorlife.com">theauthorlife.com</a></p>
<p>Listen to:</p>
<p><a href="https://thecareerauthor.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">The Career Author Podcast</a></p>
<p><a href="https://shows.acast.com/thewriterswell">The Writers Well Podcast </a></p>
<p><a href="https://writersinkpodcast.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Writers Ink Podcast</a></p>
<p><a href="https://theauthorlife.com/posts/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Author Life Podcast</a></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><iframe loading="lazy" style="border: none;" title="018 How to Structure a Novel with J Thorn" src="https://www.podbean.com/media/player/9pgnt-d52129?from=yiiadmin&amp;download=1&amp;version=1&amp;skin=1&amp;btn-skin=107&amp;auto=0&amp;share=1&amp;fonts=Helvetica&amp;download=1&amp;rtl=0&amp;pbad=1" width="100%" height="122" scrolling="no" data-name="pb-iframe-player"></iframe></p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
Hello and welcome back to The Rebel Author Podcast. Today I am joined by Jay Thorne. Jay has published 2 million words and has sold more than 185,000 books worldwide. He is an official member of the science fiction and fantasy Writers of America, the horror Writers Association and the Great Lakes association of horror writers forum and a BA in American history from the University of Pittsburgh and an MA from Duquesne University. He is a full time writer, part time professor at John Carroll University, co owner of Multan universe media podcaster FM radio DJ musician and I satified story grid nut. Welcome.</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
Thank you, Sacha.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
Thank you so much for coming on. I am trying to maintain an air of cool But I just wanted to say, for anybody listening, J has like a gazillion podcasts. And they are all exceptionally brilliant. I think I listened to at least three or four of them. And so before we start, let&#8217;s just share all of your amazing podcasts and you want to tell everybody what they are?</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
Alright the one, the one I do myself, it&#8217;s more monthly. It&#8217;s called The Author Life. And that&#8217;s sort of a long form essay style podcast episode. And then I have three that I do with other people. So I have the author podcast that I do with Zach Zach Bohannon and he was on your show. Yeah. And I do the writer as well with my good friend Rachael Herron. And I just started one well just started I guess a few months ago with JD Barker called writers Inc. That&#8217;s the newest one and that is an interview format podcast.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
Yes. And I think we we we probably have to mention your your slam dunk home run of a guest last week go on tell everyone.</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
I think you&#8217;re talking about Mr. James Patterson.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
Oh, yes. I might be. Yeah. Oh, gee, when I heard you had James Patterson on your podcast, I was like, Whoa, like amazing and I have listened. And yeah, everybody needs to not stop what they&#8217;re today. But after you finish listening, go listen to all of the podcasts because I am a huge fan of them all.</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
And I have to give credit to JD he is a he&#8217;s fearless. He&#8217;s the guy who asks people to come on the writers Inc. and he is absolutely fearless. He will ask anyone and anyone he wants to be on he will ask and so many of them say yes.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
It&#8217;s like on a scale of like one to shitting yourself. Where were you on this?</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
I there was&#8230; I don&#8217;t know like, I don&#8217;t know if you could hear in the interview. There are a few moments. I just started tripping on my myself and I had to just say, like, just shut up and let him talk. Just, Just shut up and let them talk because I was starting to get the panic. And the guy&#8217;s been through a handful of interviews. And he and he totally took charge. And I was just like, I took my hands off the wheel. I&#8217;m like, Alright, Patterson, you drive. I can&#8217;t, you know, it was it was intimidating. And he&#8217;s a great guy. And and it was a fantastic interview, and I&#8217;m really grateful that he took the time to do it. But for me as an interviewer and a podcaster. I finished that I told JD I&#8217;m like, I kind of feel like I don&#8217;t need anybody else after that.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
Yeah. There is literally nothing. I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s anyone Well, maybe JK Rowling just just from my perspective, because it was such a huge, the books were out. I was almost the same age as Harry Potter as the effects were coming out. So for me, they&#8217;re kind of you know, but yeah, oh my god. Like Sarah say James Patterson. Let&#8217;s talk about what we&#8217;re here to talk about. So first of all, for anybody who doesn&#8217;t know who you are, and who the hell are these people? Can you please tell everybody a little bit more about you, your journey and you know, your books were and how you got to where you are now?</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
Yeah, I don&#8217;t quite know. So I&#8217;ll do my best is a lot of it&#8217;s a mystery to me as well. But I give you the the bullet point version is I started, I published my first book, The KDP in 2009. So it was just just prior to what became known as the Kindle Gold Rush. And so I just had a sort of a 10 year anniversary as far as publishing goes, I left my full time teaching job in 2017. So it took me about eight years or so, to get to the point to I was ready to do that, although technically wasn&#8217;t ready. I don&#8217;t know why my wife didn&#8217;t divorce me, but I was making about $200 a month in royalties. I had two teenagers, two kids in private school, a mortgage and a wife and I quit my salary job, and which is not good advice and not the thing you should do. But that&#8217;s what I did. And, and I think part of that now is I consider myself sort of an author and a teacher for at least a year. So after I left, I wanted nothing to do with teaching. And now I&#8217;ve come back around and I&#8217;m sort of applying my skill set as an author to help other authors and it&#8217;s a whole different kind of teaching, and just totally loving it now.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
It&#8217;s so funny how so many of the things that we hate about our prior lives end up coming back to us like I used to do project management. And as much as I really desperately hard to rebel against, though, that you know, those skills or those systems or structures that I had in place that I can&#8217;t seem to quite let go fully and, you know, those structures of skills keep coming back in and it infuriates me. So you are about to launch a book called three story method. Is that is that the full title? What&#8217;s the full title?</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
It&#8217;s not the full title. But I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ve nailed down the full title yet. So that something about fundamentals of fiction, I should probably know what that is. Yeah, three story method we can go that&#8217;s that safe. I know that for sure.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
Okay. Super. Can you tell everyone a little bit about the concept behind the book and what inspired you to write it?</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
Yeah. The process of creating fiction is something that I&#8217;ve been working on for a decade and when Zach and I got together, Zach came into the industry about around 2014 I think he was about five years after me. The one sack and I started co writing, we had to systematize. As a former project manager, you can appreciate the fact that if you&#8217;re working with other people, you need a system of something like if you&#8217;re by yourself, that&#8217;s one thing, but anytime you involve a second person or third person, you need a system. And so we kind of informally and organically started to systematize, all of our processes. And at one point, we said to each other, you know, this would be really helpful for other people, for other authors, and we started testing now we do authors on a train, we do world building retreats. And so we started teaching this process, and the response was overwhelming. People were saying, like, wow, that really makes sense. Like, I can use that I understand it. And I kind of had this revelation, this sort of awakening where I was, like, you know, as authors, we try to overcomplicate everything and story just isn&#8217;t that complicated. It&#8217;s pretty simple. And and yet, we try and make things way more complicated than they have to be. So the The inspiration was okay, let&#8217;s simplify this process. And then let&#8217;s teach people in a way that they understand it. Because the other thing that I found out and it&#8217;s Zach and I saw firsthand was the most prolific, and the best, most talented authors aren&#8217;t necessarily the best teachers. Those are two different skill sets. So whether it&#8217;s as an author or a welder, or a mechanic, sometimes the people who are really good at what they do, don&#8217;t know how they do it. And if you ask them, they&#8217;ll go I don&#8217;t know I just do it. Like they can&#8217;t teach other people how to do it. And there was there is and there was a lot of methodology books and systems out there. And some of them were by brilliant people who really have no&#8230; didn&#8217;t have the skills to teach other people how to use it. So it really was this idea of Okay, let&#8217;s streamline the process. Let&#8217;s make it simple. And let&#8217;s teach people how to do it and give them the tools that they need.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
Amazing and let&#8217;s go ahead Little bit deeper. But obviously without giving you know the entire book away, can you give listeners a bit of an overview of what the three story method is?</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
Yes, it&#8217;s sort of a two pronged approach because what you have is your approaching story at the same level. And scenes are really important. Like if you can&#8217;t write a good scene, it doesn&#8217;t matter what kind of wonderful world that you build, or any kind of plot that you have a reader picks up and at the end of chapter one, they don&#8217;t want to turn the page, nothing else matters. So part of three story method is dealing with three elements at the scene level. And then we come up a level and we look at it from a higher altitude. And we have three general things that we look at from the higher level. So for the global story arc, we&#8217;re looking at plot and structure is kind of one level. Then we have genre and theme as another level, or story and then character and world. So you have those sort of three elements. Those are the high level at the scene level. All you have the three elements of conflict, choice and consequence. And really, if if you don&#8217;t even want to buy the book, and if you remember nothing else from from this podcast, if you can nail conflict choice and consequence 95% of what you write will be stellar.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
Yeah. And that was actually my favorite section in the book was around conflict choice and consequence. And you have them in a very nice triangle. And but I wonder if we could go a bit deeper specifically on the choice, conflict and consequence and, and, you know, look at how those interplay and what those mean for a writer writing a scene and I guess structuring, like that book as well?</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
Yes, well, I&#8217;ve been working with clients for a number of years now. And it not only in my own work in my co writers work and in clients where the biggest struggle I see from other authors at the scene level is not having a strong enough choice. So if we back up a second, conflict, choice and consequence are built on Aristotle&#8217;s idea that stories must have a beginning, a middle and an end, which again, sound everyone&#8217;s like, duh, right? But when you sit down to write, you&#8217;d be surprised how many scenes get cranked out that are missing one of those three elements, or they don&#8217;t have a strong enough one. So if you think about story being all about conflict, like you have to have something happening or you don&#8217;t have a story, and again, that sounds super simple, but the choice is the middle element. So the conflict is, in any scene, what pushes the protagonist or the main character out of their normal routine or out of their habit that is your conflict your initial conflict, that should then build to a choice what decision must the character make and your characters must make a decision in every single scene, and then the consequences naturally what follows from that. So the key on the choice is it has to be a question that you plant in the readers mind. And the question has to be, what would I do in this situation? That is what&#8217;s going to push a reader to say, well, I want to see what happens. And the way that you do that is you have, you have to, there&#8217;s two parts to that, you make that decision extremely difficult. Now, it doesn&#8217;t mean the stakes have to be really high every time but the options that they&#8217;re facing should be equally good or equally bad. And if you do your choice, right, you can get people arguing, you could get readers arguing over what that character should do. And it could even be dependent on the context. So maybe, maybe a reader would do one thing one time but do the opposite. If the situation was different, and that&#8217;s it, that&#8217;s the key. You want to make your choice as difficult as possible and your protagonist, because that will be the most interesting to the reader.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
And then obviously, there must always be a consequence for whatever That decision is right. So can you give me an example? I think you use Star Wars quite a lot in the book. Can you give me a worked example of how this conflict choice and consequence plays out? And obviously most people well, I&#8217;m assuming most people have seen Star Wars so they&#8217;ll they&#8217;ll be able to, you know, follow.</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
I know, we have to give a 1977. If you haven&#8217;t seen Star Wars A New Hope yet, you might want hit pause on this. Yeah. I&#8217;m gonna spoil it and tell you that Obi Wan Kenobi is killed by Darth Vader. That&#8217;s the spoiler. That&#8217;s a really pivotal scene not only in in the movie, but in the hero&#8217;s journey archetype. And for Luke Skywalker is the protagonist. And I think it&#8217;s like it&#8217;s a great example of a difficult choice. Now, it has high stakes, not every scene will. But this what happens is, if you all remember from the movie, a Darth Vader and Obi Wan are having their lightsaber duel on in the middle of the Death Star, and Luke along with I think Han Solo might be with them and chewy. They they arrive. And it&#8217;s not verbalized. But Luke has a choice, right? He either interferes with what&#8217;s happening and gets involved in the conflict. Or he waits and waits it out to see what happens. And if you think about that, it&#8217;s an incredibly difficult choice because Obi Wan is his mentor. He&#8217;s been training him. But now he&#8217;s facing like the most evil villain in the universe. So if Luke, Luke could bring harm to himself or to others, if he interferes, so that that&#8217;s one level of consequence. But clearly, Darth Vader is more powerful, stronger. Obi Wan&#8217;s an old man, so if Luke does nothing, his mentor&#8217;s probably going to die. And if Luke gets involved, he&#8217;s also risking Princess Leia and his job is to get laid off the Death Star. Because she&#8217;s the hope for the rebellion. So that&#8217;s a perfect example of an incredibly difficult choice where you as, as the viewer, you&#8217;re like, oh, gosh, what does he do? And it&#8217;s kind of cringe worthy. And that&#8217;s a perfect example of a difficult choice.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
And the thing that I really gave me a bit of an epiphany is that the consequence needs to change things forever. So you can&#8217;t you can&#8217;t take a step back.</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
You can&#8217;t undo it.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
Yeah, exactly. You can&#8217;t undo it. And so the choice that sorry, the con, I gotta get this in the right order. The conflict, choice, consequence, should be used throughout every scene. Is that right?</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
That&#8217;s correct. Yes.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
So how can writers use this in conjunction with their plotting, let&#8217;s say they&#8217;re plotting, and how can they you know, what tips are there for making sure that they have enough information and they&#8217;re plotting, you know, before they come to the page?</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
Yeah. In the most simplest form, I would have an outline or a set of story beats. And for every scene, I would write one bullet point for conflict, one for choice, one for consequence. Now I know that you know people who are more Panthers or discovery writers, they, they might want to come to a blank page. But I feel like if you&#8217;re writing a 2000 word scene, and you&#8217;re putting 10 words down on the page, you&#8217;re going to pants 1990 of them. So there&#8217;s even if you have just those three things mapped out, there&#8217;s still so much room for you in the scene. But at least you know what you&#8217;re going for, you know, how the scene is going to start, you know, the decision the characters going to face and then you know the outcome, which will set you up for the next scene. So I would say the very bare minimum, that&#8217;s really all you need. And if you do that much, and just and you&#8217;re still pantser, I think that&#8217;s going to give you just enough structure to get through without, like, locking up or having writer&#8217;s block.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
Yeah, and I suppose if there are some true rebels out there who really don&#8217;t even want to do that, I suppose they could use it as a check mechanism, when they go back to review each scene to make sure that they have, you know, a conflict beat, a choice beat and a consequence beat.</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
Yes, you absolutely could do that.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
Um, so what mistakes Do you think authors make when it comes to structure and plotting?</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
Well, I think if you&#8217;re talking specifically about plotting, I think this is a place where you need to be in the Goldilocks zone, I think you need to be moderate. I think you need to be somewhere in the middle I, I find authors who struggle are on the ends of the spectrum, they&#8217;re either writing out a 30,000 word outline, and at that point is basically a draft or they they have so little that they don&#8217;t know where they&#8217;re going. And so I think if you can kind of stay towards the middle and like I said, give yourself give yourself enough that you you know, where the scene is going to begin You know, what the decision is going to be and then how is going to end that&#8217;s kind of that&#8217;s kind of what you want. So that&#8217;s the biggest mistake I see. It&#8217;s just being on the on the ends of the spectrum.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
Let&#8217;s bring all of this together what tips and tricks do you have for you know structure and or anything else you want to add basically about the three story method and how it can help writers in structuring their stories better.</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
I think the the simplest thing you can do and it&#8217;s completely free if you check out <strong>The Career Author podcast</strong>, Zach and I, I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;ll be wrapped up by the time completely wrapped up by the time this airs, but it&#8217;ll be pretty close. I think. We did what we&#8217;re calling an influencer series. So we looked at the story methodologies that really influenced us and influence three story method and and that if you listen to those episodes, you&#8217;re going to get a nice overview of what those methods are and how they work. And I think that&#8217;s a great place to start. So for example, the first influencer episode we did was Aristotle&#8217;s poetics. We looked at The Hero&#8217;s Journey both Campbell and Vogler&#8217;s interpretations, the Virgin&#8217;s promise with Kim Hudson and we looked at story by Robert McKee. And those sort of are the basis for three story methods. I would say to people, go listen to those podcast episodes. And that&#8217;ll start to kind of whet your appetite for what a story structure can be and how you can use it.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
Yeah, and I&#8217;ve listened to the Aristotle one and it made me buy the Aristotle poetics. So cheers for spending my money. Yeah, no, it was excellent. They say, and it was also interesting to see all of the stuff behind it. There is a bit of that in the book as well, but it was interesting to see where all the stuff behind it. Yes, um, okay, well, this is The Rebel the Podcast, so tell me about a time you unleash your inner rebel.</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
Well, I have to ask if I can tell you about a time I released my outer rebel Would that be okay? Yeah. Okay, you&#8217;re gonna love this. My wife makes fun of me all the time. And I&#8217;m not saying this works 100% of the time, but it works enough that I keep doing it. Alright, so here&#8217;s how you can be a rebel. Anytime you want something, let&#8217;s say you want a lower rate for your cell phone, or you want to decrease your cable cost or you want to, you want to get an extra package for your insurance. What you do is you call customer service, and you don&#8217;t ask them, you tell them what they&#8217;re going to do. thinking it&#8217;s no way this is gonna work, and I&#8217;m telling you it does. It doesn&#8217;t work every time. I perfect example, I was paying like $95 a month for my cable bill and I have like cable and internet. So I called the company and like customer service answers and like yeah, how can we help you? I&#8217;m like, let me tell you what you&#8217;re gonna do. And this is exactly how I said it. I was like, really upbeat and positive. I&#8217;m like, I&#8217;m paying so much from for my cable right now. So you&#8217;re going to drop it to 65 bucks a month. And she&#8217;s like, um, I can ask him like, No, you don&#8217;t have to ask just you just gonna go ahead and do it right now. And she&#8217;s like, um, hold on a second, and she comes back and she&#8217;s like, I found a voucher that will give you you know, whatever it was $35 off. So I&#8217;ll apply that to your account. Would that be okay? I&#8217;m like, splendid.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
No way, yeah, I am truly speechless.</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
you have to try it. Now. It&#8217;s, um, if you want to work up to it, like you could do it in person. So like, if you go into a coffee shop, and you&#8217;re like, let me tell you what you&#8217;re gonna do. You&#8217;re gonna I&#8217;m gonna pay for the small you&#8217;re gonna put you&#8217;re gonna put it in a large cup. That&#8217;s hard to do. And but if you start on the phone, it&#8217;s easier to do that pick an account that you&#8217;re paying too much money and just call customer service and tell them what they&#8217;re going to do and that&#8217;s unleashing your outer and your inner rebel.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
My God, there must be like some psychology around the you know the sort of affirmative statements or something where you give somebody no good. I have literally in awe of your rebellious nature.</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
to you have to be forceful but polite, and you have to be upbeat and positive. So you can&#8217;t like scream at them, but you just you were like, let me tell you what you&#8217;re gonna do. You get them all pumped up, and they&#8217;re like, and they just do it. And I&#8217;m telling you it&#8217;s happened enough that it&#8217;s not a fluke. And not every time but enough that I&#8217;m like that works.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
That is like a recipe for wealth domination. I am so impressed like I am taking notes right now. Oh my god, I think this is maybe my favorite rebel story ever. Sorry everyone else.</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
Well, I you could probably do you know me well enough to know that I don&#8217;t like following the rules. I&#8217;m kind of a rebel at heart. And so that&#8217;s one way you can kind of break me just yeah, call them and tell them. Don&#8217;t ask for Permission just tell them what they&#8217;re gonna do.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
I love I love it. Yeah, absolutely love it. I am I am literally gonna drop you an email when I&#8217;ve done this and be like, yes. Yeah.</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
Yeah, here&#8217;s, here&#8217;s where it worked or like, here&#8217;s where it didn&#8217;t work, but try it.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
Yes. And if any listener would like to also participate in our new game and then please do tweet. Okay, tell listeners where they can find out more about you your books and your podcasts.</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
Yeah, everything about me is that <a href="http://www.theauthorlife.com">theauthorlife.com</a>. That&#8217;s where I have all my podcasts and information and things like that. And if they&#8217;re interested in three story method, we have a landing page up at three story method calm. Amazing.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
And just one more time the names of your podcast Justin and because I will also link to them.</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
Yes, The Author Life, The Writers Well, The Career Author podcast and Writers Ink.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
Amazing. Thank you so much for your time today. Really, really appreciate it.</p>
<p>J Thorn<br />
Pleasure. I had a blast.</p>
<p>Sacha Black<br />
Yeah, I&#8217;m still. Okay. Right. Thank you to all of the patrons supporting the show. If you would like to get early access to all of the episodes, then you can do so by visiting <a href="http://www.patreon.com/SachaBlack">www.patreon.com/SachaBlack</a> and that is Sacha with a C. Thank you very much to everybody listening. I&#8217;m Sacha Black. You are listening to J Thorn and this was The Rebel Author Podcast.</p>
<p>If you enjoyed this episode, you might like these from the Rebel Author Podcast archive:</p>
<blockquote class="wp-embedded-content" data-secret="Nsv5acCRPM"><p><a href="https://sachablack.co.uk/2020/01/15/011-authors-and-money-how-to-quit-your-job-and-write-full-time-with-zach-bohannon/">011 Authors and Money: How to Quit Your Job and Write Full-Time with Zach Bohannon</a></p></blockquote>
<p><iframe loading="lazy" class="wp-embedded-content" sandbox="allow-scripts" security="restricted"  title="&#8220;011 Authors and Money: How to Quit Your Job and Write Full-Time with Zach Bohannon&#8221; &#8212; Sacha Black" src="https://sachablack.co.uk/2020/01/15/011-authors-and-money-how-to-quit-your-job-and-write-full-time-with-zach-bohannon/embed/#?secret=jyjLT3SrpT#?secret=Nsv5acCRPM" data-secret="Nsv5acCRPM" width="500" height="282" frameborder="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" scrolling="no"></iframe></p>
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<p><iframe loading="lazy" class="wp-embedded-content" sandbox="allow-scripts" security="restricted"  title="&#8220;010 How to Be an Author on Youtube with Jenna Moreci&#8221; &#8212; Sacha Black" src="https://sachablack.co.uk/2020/01/08/010-how-to-be-an-author-on-youtube-with-jenna-moreci/embed/#?secret=5KkjH2VfKC#?secret=VKLZogMxmL" data-secret="VKLZogMxmL" width="500" height="282" frameborder="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" scrolling="no"></iframe></p>
<p>The post <a href="https://sachablack.co.uk/2020/03/04/018-how-to-structure-a-novel-with-j-thorn/">018 How to Structure a Novel with J Thorn</a> appeared first on <a href="https://sachablack.co.uk">Sacha Black</a>.</p>
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		<title>6 Ways To Organise Your Beta Reader Feedback</title>
		<link>https://sachablack.co.uk/2016/11/07/6-ways-to-organise-your-beta-reader-feedback/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=6-ways-to-organise-your-beta-reader-feedback</link>
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		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sacha Black]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2016 08:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[Writing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Writing Tips]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beta]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beta feedback]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beta reading]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[editing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[organisation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[structure]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[writer]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sachablack.co.uk/?p=5601</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[<p>Forget the fountain of youth, no one needs to live forever. I mean, can you imagine the botox bill? and not just for your face&#8230; EWW. Moving on. Beta feedback is a gift from the holy fountain of book perfection.  For some, it makes them face plant into a vat of sludgey self-loathing and bookpression. But [&#8230;]</p>
<p>The post <a href="https://sachablack.co.uk/2016/11/07/6-ways-to-organise-your-beta-reader-feedback/">6 Ways To Organise Your Beta Reader Feedback</a> appeared first on <a href="https://sachablack.co.uk">Sacha Black</a>.</p>
]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img loading="lazy" decoding="async" class="alignleft wp-image-5611 " src="http://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/beta-feedback.jpg?w=620" alt="beta-feedback" width="383" height="233" />Forget the fountain of youth, no one needs to live forever. I mean, can you imagine the botox bill? and not just for your face&#8230; EWW. Moving on.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color:#800080;">Beta feedback is a gift from the holy fountain of book perfection. </span></strong></p>
<p>For some, it makes them face plant into a vat of sludgey self-loathing and bookpression. But for others it turns their sleep deprived eyes into glinty, sparkling ones accompanied by feverish hand rubbing and villainish cackles.</p>
<p>Your book, if you listen to your beta readers, will be oh so much better. That word-turd you vomited out over months of sleepless nights, will finally become a polished glitter covered book.</p>
<p>But receiving beta feedback can be somewhat overwhelming, especially if like me, you don&#8217;t do detail.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve finally managed to get on top of the beta feedback and have almost finished going through it.</p>
<p style="text-align:center;"><strong><span style="color:#800080;">This post is dedicated to my amazing beta readers, there are no words to quantify my gratitude.</span></strong></p>
<p>Here are 6 ways to manage and organise your beta feedback.<br />
<span id="more-5601"></span></p>
<p>There are two types of thinker in the world:</p>
<p><strong><span style="color:#800080;">Introverted Thinkers</span></strong> &#8211; the ones who can read a ton of information and process it internally, chomping through the material using nothing but the might of the meat machine that is their brain. They can hold all their notes mentally, and quite frankly, make information processing look as easy as breathing. They are processing ballerina&#8217;s&#8230; Ducks that keep the surface smooth and calm, but on the inside, under the surface, their brain-legs are paddling frantically.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color:#800080;">Extroverted Thinkers</span> </strong>&#8211; Although I&#8217;m an introverted person, I am most definitely an extroverted thinker. I am not a duck and I am certainly not a graceful ballerina. Unless by ballerina you mean clumsy, flat-footed elephant.</p>
<figure id="attachment_5602" aria-describedby="caption-attachment-5602" style="width: 300px" class="wp-caption alignright"><img loading="lazy" decoding="async" class="size-medium wp-image-5602" src="http://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/14908290_10154759831287079_3252308435780558524_n.jpg?w=300" alt="My living room as I gracefully processed beta feedback" width="300" height="225" srcset="https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/14908290_10154759831287079_3252308435780558524_n.jpg 960w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/14908290_10154759831287079_3252308435780558524_n-660x495.jpg 660w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/14908290_10154759831287079_3252308435780558524_n-300x225.jpg 300w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/14908290_10154759831287079_3252308435780558524_n-768x576.jpg 768w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px" /><figcaption id="caption-attachment-5602" class="wp-caption-text">My livingroom as I gracefully processed beta feedback.</figcaption></figure>
<p>Extroverted thinkers can&#8217;t process inside their brains. They have to &#8216;get it out&#8217;. Holding information inside their heads clogs them up with a TV like static. They&#8217;re the ones that like to &#8216;bounce&#8217; ideas around, talk it out, get white board and diagram happy as they whip themselves into a post it frenzy.</p>
<p>Or they do what I did in the photo. Make a god awful mess of their livingroom.</p>
<p>There is always, a lot of feedback. Beta readers invest considerable time and energy into providing quality feedback because they&#8217;re invested in your story and in you. They want your story to be the best it can be. Which is why we writers owe it to them to make the most of their feedback. That doesn&#8217;t mean you HAVE to bow at their feet and humbly tweak every comma they picked up, after all, it&#8217;s your story and only you know how it bleeds commas, but it does mean you have to carefully process and consider each of their thoughtful comments.</p>
<p>Now, introverted thinkers might not find this so useful, in fact, extroverted thinkers might not either, but nonetheless here&#8217;s a chuff load ideas for different ways you can organise beta feedback.</p>
<p style="text-align:center;"><span style="color:#000080;"><strong>How do you manage beta feedback? Let me know in the comments below.</strong></span></p>
<hr />
<p><span style="color:#800080;"><strong>WAY ONE – ALL ABOUT THE DIVAS</strong></span></p>
<p>If most of your feedback is based on character developments, because little Johnny Tubster is fat with flatness, then you can <span style="color:#800080;"><strong>create a page per character</strong></span>, jot the edits or changes down and reference the chapter the changes are needed in. Or use a short quote to identify the exact spot. This isn’t like plotting or creating a character template/interview. The reason this is handy is because you can see all the changes you intend to make to one character in one place – and if they’re in one place, you can see if the changes you’re going to make are consistent.</p>
<p><span style="color:#333333;">Why not note down your character’s arc at the same time, just to make sure they’re fat with depth and not word flab. It doesn’t have to be war and peace you can do it in three short sentences:</span></p>
<p><strong><span style="color:#800080;">Where does he start</span>?</strong> – <em>Being bullied because he can’t bend over far enough to pull his wedgy out.</em></p>
<p><strong><span style="color:#800080;">What’s his revelation that starts his process of change?</span> </strong>– <em>The only way to stop being bullied is to lose enough weight to pull the offending wedgy out.</em></p>
<p><span style="color:#800080;"><strong>Where does he end? </strong></span>&#8211; <em>With a bit of weight lost and the ability to remove underwear from his buttcheeks he&#8217;s no longer bullied.</em></p>
<hr />
<p><span style="color:#800080;"><strong>WAY TWO &#8211; SHIMMY DOWN THE SUB</strong></span></p>
<p>Subplots are the threads that stitch your novel together, they take it from cloth patches, to patchwork quilt.</p>
<p>But fuck them up, and readers are left confused, or with millions of unanswered questions. More often than not, you think you’ve explained a line of your story, but you haven’t. If you’re anything like me, you know your story and your book world inside out, but sometimes what you think you’ve tattooed into the page, has actually stayed resident inside cell M in sector 9 of your brain.</p>
<p><span style="color:#800080;"><strong>Subplot Mechanism One</strong></span> – You could create a table with two three columns, a name for your subplot, a one sentence summary of it in the next column and in the last, the edits you need to make and the relevant chapters they&#8217;re in. <a href="http://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/subplot.docx" target="_blank">Like this template.</a></p>
<p><span style="color:#800080;"><strong>Subplot Mechanism Two</strong></span> &#8211; Get a massive piece of paper and use cue cards or Post its to record your subplots and relevant changes</p>
<p><span style="color:#800080;"><strong>Subplot Mechanism Three</strong></span> – create a timeline on a big bit of paper, and mark up the key points at which your story progresses, like the hook, the twist etc, then in a different colour for each subplot mark on your timeline the edits you need to make.</p>
<hr />
<p><span style="color:#800080;"><strong>WAY THREE – I DO LIKE TO BE BESIDE THE SCENE SIDE</strong></span></p>
<p>Depending on whether you prefer to work scene by scene or chapter by chapter, you can note your edits in a table with each chapter broken down. <a href="http://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/scene.docx" target="_blank">Like this template.</a></p>
<hr />
<figure id="attachment_5610" aria-describedby="caption-attachment-5610" style="width: 300px" class="wp-caption alignleft"><img loading="lazy" decoding="async" class="wp-image-5610 size-medium" src="http://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/santas-typewriter.jpg?w=300" alt="Image curtesy of creative commons" width="300" height="225" srcset="https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/santas-typewriter.jpg 1920w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/santas-typewriter-660x495.jpg 660w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/santas-typewriter-300x225.jpg 300w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/santas-typewriter-768x576.jpg 768w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/santas-typewriter-1024x768.jpg 1024w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/santas-typewriter-1200x900.jpg 1200w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px" /><figcaption id="caption-attachment-5610" class="wp-caption-text">Image curtesy of creative commons</figcaption></figure>
<p><span style="color:#800080;"><strong>WAY FOUR – SANTA’S NAUGHTY LIST</strong></span></p>
<p>We all have bad habits, I end up with a crutch word list the length of Britain, but thankfully, I have a smart trick to get rid of them. <a href="https://sachablack.co.uk/2015/03/19/the-secret-to-the-quickest-edit-you-can-do/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#800080;">What the trick fails to do</span></a>, is capture any duplicated <em>phrases</em> I <span style="text-decoration:line-through;">may have used</span> vomited repeatedly like Groundhog Day. Having a handy list means I can pick them up as I go.</p>
<hr />
<p><span style="color:#800080;"><strong>WAY FIVE – READY… SET…WORLD.</strong></span></p>
<p>Writing fantasy means you like playing god, you create worlds. That means complex societal laws. Rules that can&#8217;t be broken, nuances, clothing, powers, ceremonies, jobs, you name it, you need to make sure you&#8217;re consistent with it. If you have time bending powers you better make sure your sister doesn&#8217;t end up as your mum, or your grandma as your daughter.</p>
<p>Having a sheet that collates any world building or setting faux pas will help you when it comes to ensuring continuity.</p>
<p>Same for plotting the time of day in each chapter.</p>
<hr />
<p><span style="color:#800080;"><strong>WAY SIX THE CLUSTER FUCK APPROACH</strong></span></p>
<figure id="attachment_5615" aria-describedby="caption-attachment-5615" style="width: 300px" class="wp-caption alignright"><img loading="lazy" decoding="async" class="size-medium wp-image-5615" src="http://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/img_9913.jpg?w=300" alt="At last some order and structure is appearing!" width="300" height="286" /><figcaption id="caption-attachment-5615" class="wp-caption-text">At last, out of chaos comes order and structure!</figcaption></figure>
<p>Last but by no means least, here’s my approach, that I’ve fondly named, the cluster fuck. In which I sit in the middle of my livingroom, spread shit E.V.E.R.Y.W.H.E.R.E, thereby irritating my spouse profusely. I then meander around like a wasted toddler sticking brightly coloured shit and things to bits of paper.</p>
<p>Okay, joking aside, I do a bit of all of the above. I start by reading through every single comment the betas made, TWICE. I put a tick by the ones I want to do something with, and then write up by hand (there’s that extroverted thinking again) what I’m going to do. Usually, I will put the edit I am going to make on either ‘a character specific sheet’, a subplot sheet or a general edits page. I also note the chapter, and then I take obscene amounts of pleasure from crossing each post it off once I’ve made the edits.</p>
<hr />
<p><strong><span style="color:#800080;">Liked this post? Why not subscribe for monthly updates and get the latest in publishing news, writing competitions and book updates. Sign up</span> <a href="http://eepurl.com/bRLqwT" target="_blank">here</a>.</strong></p>
<p><img loading="lazy" decoding="async" class="size-medium wp-image-5431 aligncenter" src="http://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/untitled-11.jpg?w=300" alt="untitled-1" width="300" height="102" srcset="https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/untitled-11.jpg 931w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/untitled-11-660x224.jpg 660w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/untitled-11-300x102.jpg 300w, https://sachablack.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/untitled-11-768x261.jpg 768w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px" /></p>
<p>The post <a href="https://sachablack.co.uk/2016/11/07/6-ways-to-organise-your-beta-reader-feedback/">6 Ways To Organise Your Beta Reader Feedback</a> appeared first on <a href="https://sachablack.co.uk">Sacha Black</a>.</p>
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