Hello Rebels welcome back to The Rebel Author Podcast episode 19. Today’s podcast is with Karen Ferreira and it’s all about how to write and publish illustrated children’s books.
This week’s question is:
What was your favorite children’s book?
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Podcast recommendations from last week include:
- Writing Excuses
- Six Figure Authors
- The Self-Publishing Show
- The Creative Penn
- Great Writers Share
- The Strategy Hour
- Armchair Expert
- Breaking the Glass Slipper
- Ask ALLi
- StoryGrid Editors Roundtable
- Author Like a Boss
- The Creative Writer’s Toolbelt
- SPA Girls
- Writer on the Road
- Write Now
- Novel Tea Show
- The History of Witchcraft
- Wicked Game
- American History Podcast
- History That Doesn’t Suck
How to Write and Publish Illustrated Children’s Books
Find out more about Karen on her:
Website www.getyourbookillustrations.com
The download for the things to consider before going with an illustrator can be found here.
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Sacha Black
Hello and welcome back to The Rebel Author Podcast. Today I am with Karen Ferreira. Karen is an illustrator, award winning animation creative director, and owner of get your book illustrations. She helps self publishing authors get amazing, affordable illustrations. She spent many hours learning about self publishing and enjoys helping others succeed in this field. Hello. Hi. Hello, welcome to my podcast. It is a pleasure to have you here today. Would you first of all like to tell everyone a little bit about you your journey, your business and how you got to where you are today?
Karen Ferreira
Sure.
So from when I was really young, I always wanted to do art. And I grew up in a very practical family which has its good and its bedside. But so in the end, I went and studied textile and surface design because that’s a more practical way of doing art, you know. And then the moment I was done with that I didn’t actually get a job. I went to America and trained to help people on on life improvement courses, and I became a counselor. So I did that for many, many years. And then eventually, I came full circle back to art in about 2010. I decided I missed it too much. And I actually just did it as a sideline, I started entering contests. And pretty quickly, I started winning a couple and I was like, Oh, I can actually do something with this. So then I became a full time freelance illustrator. And from there I learned animation and now I have two companies doing animation and doing book illustrations.
Sacha Black
Amazing. I’m what kind tell me a bit more about the animation and that side. What kind of animation are they? Yeah, just Just tell me more.
Karen Ferreira
Okay, cool. Yeah, so I don’t know if you know what explainer videos are, but they like basically more corporate or company videos that explain a product or a brand or can even be a training thing. So yeah, it’s not like Disney movies or anything like that. It’s it’s a Yeah, so we do we generally we work with some big brands but we Yeah, we work really with anyone who needs a video for their website or social media.
Sacha Black
So um, you for your illustrations, you focus predominantly on children’s illustrations do you ever illustrate and other genres as well? or? Yeah, because I’m guessing There are a wide range of illustrations that authors would want.
Karen Ferreira
Yeah, absolutely. Actually, we’ve done a few non fiction books. So we totally open to that we really open to pretty much anything but obviously, mostly children’s book authors need illustrations more than anyone else. But yeah, I mean, the first job we actually ever got was a nonfiction book. Interesting.
Sacha Black
How wonderful. Okay, so we are here to talk about primarily children’s illustration and children’s books. But obviously lots of listeners won’t be writing in the children’s genre. So could you just tell me a little bit about the differences between picture book, middle grade and young adult, which kind of capture the whole children’s sphere?
Karen Ferreira
Right? Okay. Yeah, so picture books are books with text or even with no text, but they predominantly pictures bring them to life and they’re very focused on pictures. You know, they the normal children’s books that people normally think about where you have double page spreads or you have full page spreads, or at least quite quite a lot of illustration throughout the book. And normally not a lot of takes like maybe two 300 words or can be more like maybe up to 500 depending on the age. And picture books also includes like board books. Which are the hardboard books that, you know one year olds can page through by themselves
Sacha Black
And chew!
Karen Ferreira
Yeah that does damage it a bit. Yeah. That’s those as you know, sometimes they have no text or sometimes it will be like one word a page. So obviously the book is usually kind of more predominant on the pictures, the younger the kid is. And then if they, as they get older, you know that it gets more balanced between pictures and text. When you get to middle grade books. A lot of them have illustrations, and some of them don’t have any, like, Diary of a Wimpy Kid is actually a good example. They quite a lot of illustrations in there.
Sacha Black
My son has just started reading those.
Karen Ferreira
Yeah. So they, I mean, but you can see that obviously simple pictures, but you get middle grade books with more elaborate illustrations, but then also send me like Harry Potter. is actually also middle grade, interestingly, and that, you know, it’s just ticks, ticks, ticks, ticks, so it really does. Middle Grade varies completely. You can definitely do if you’re doing a middle grade book, you can definitely do illustrations and no one’s gonna think it’s weird at all. And then young adults normally doesn’t have illustrations you do you do get some but not I would. I haven’t checked it up properly as in percentage, but I’d say 95% doesn’t really have illustrations. Or if it does, you might have the spot illustrations, which are just small illustration some way on the page, you know. But you do get one like these and author Brian Selznick. I hope I’m saying his name exactly right. But he actually does a lot with illustrations and imagery in his books and they young adult, so it does vary quite a lot. And obviously the covers of the young adult books or especially fantasy teams to be illustrated and sci fi.
Sacha Black
I think there’s a huge divide in young adult books so I tend to see a lot of indie author covers with a person on the front and I’m seeing a lot of although this trend is now waning but we had a huge trend in young adult of symbols on covers my young adult books have symbols on covers. And but that was slightly more when we had the dystopian kind of boom about three or four or losing track of time but anyway a few years ago yeah, so where what where does in terms of ages where does a picture book and and middle grade start because young adult is quite clear cut in that it’s more or less from when they’re a teenager, but I think the lines between middle grade and picture but I don’t even know where that line is drawn?
Karen Ferreira
Well, technically middle grade starts at eight, eight to about 12. Yeah, so. But as I said, I mean, really, obviously there aren’t concrete dividing lines. But yeah, for sure. I mean, by the time you get to eight, it’s not normally your picture picture book. Yeah. And
Sacha Black
on a really selfish note, I am finding it really difficult because my son has just turned six. But he’s an exceptional reader. And it’s so bloody hard to find anything appropriate for him to read because the content and themes of middle grade books which are where he is reading at eight, sort of an eight year old level, it is a bit too grown up for him, you know, but actually, the stuff that is written for six year olds he’s so bored of and he’s like, you know, these are interesting stories. And I’m desperate for him not to lose his love of reading just because the books are boring, because that’s sort of four year olds rather than then. Then a six year old, but anyway, Anyway, I digress.
Karen Ferreira
I was reading adult books when I was about 11. And yeah, it worked out fine. So yeah.
Sacha Black
Yeah, Yeah, me too. I definitely did as well. Okay. Let’s talk about illustration. Let’s say an indie author wants to write a picture book. What are their options for illustration? And I suppose this is a two part question. So so I’ll ask the first one first. No, no, let me stop. Let’s just stick with what are their options? Okay,
Karen Ferreira
Cool. So, actually, they have quite a few options and some more risky, some less risky. You can you can ask friends or family or acquaintances. The thing is, you have to take a professional approach. You can’t just because you think your cousin draws okay, you know, that’s not it. It’s not a good idea they like but you might have someone in your family or a friend that’s actually a really good illustrator and ensure you can you can chat to them. There are also advantages depending on your relationship. And for someone who really doesn’t have such a big budget, but they want good illustrations, actually, art schools or colleges can be a cool option. Because most of the, let’s say kids, they would love to obviously illustrate a book, I mean, it’s a great opportunity. The only thing you have to watch for is the inexperienced, so they might not know exactly what’s needed, they might not be able to guide you. So you probably gonna have to do more research to make sure that the format is right that you know that you don’t get to the printer, and then there’s a big problem.
And then, obviously, freelancers online is a massive industry. So you get sites like Upwork and Fiverr, and those can be you can find someone awesome on there or not. It just depends like so I definitely wouldn’t say don’t go that route. It all but you have to understand you might have a bad experience. Like, if you’ve never especially worked with a freelancer, you know, at least if you’re going to do that have a really, like, have a conversation with him like a pretty full on conversation with him before starting to really feel them out. Because someone might also seem really cool if you check for five sentences, but then when you get into the job, it might turn into a nightmare.
Sacha Black
Yeah, and let’s just let me pause there because I think that is a really valid piece of advice for anybody looking for any kind of freelancer, regardless of whether it’s illustration, it goes for book cover designers, it goes for editors. And I can talk from personal experience that I got really badly burned with my first designer who was insanely talented and you know, I absolutely love the cover that I got. But unfortunately, due to personal circumstances on their, and it It took a year to get one cover, it cost, you know, two or three times the amount that I pay for covers now and and got quite tense towards the end. And you know that is because I perhaps didn’t know enough hadn’t done enough research… hadn’t you know, I had to pull off our contract essentially and you know, really state that these were the terms and conditions and therefore I needed x, y and z. But it is really a lesson for everybody listening to make sure you do read terms and conditions. You do have contract details laid laid out in black and white. And but and and you know, you really do ask those questions to any freelance or I think that you work with. Yeah,
Karen Ferreira
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, don’t just think because they’re a freelancer, they’re just going to do a great job. I know also, from personal experience, you can have very bad experience.
Sacha Black
Yeah, even when the work is wonderful. You know, you can still have a bad experience and that that was what happened to me. The work was exceptional. I just, there was a clashing, shall we say?
Karen Ferreira
Something like that? Yeah, exactly. And obviously, what’s nice about a lot of those sites, those, you can look for ratings. But so do look if you know if the ratings bad, I would say steer clear. But ratings, even so I found don’t act aren’t always clean cut, like someone might have a few good reviews and even then they might not be a good match. So yeah, just really chat to them.
And then the last thing, the last option basically would be like an illustration agency or a company like mine, and there are a few online where, you know, it’s a little team of illustrators, and like in our case, and I think in most with most of them, I’m not 100% Sure. You normally have a project manager who makes sure the project is running and sorry. So normally that could also it’s not always a safety, but normally that would be a bit more of a safe bet because it’s a bit more established. And, obviously, you know, you have to look at exactly what you after. So some people love to work directly directly with the illustrator and with some agencies, you can end with some you can’t. Okay,
Sacha Black
so let’s say an author would like to work with an illustrator, what is your ideal client like? What should they come to you knowing how much information do they need to have? What are you know, what things do they have to be able to tell you in order for you to be able to give them the their ideal product?
Karen Ferreira
Well, basically, the, the what exactly you want in the illustration isn’t always important. The illustrator can actually when you work with a publisher, you actually don’t get to say what you want in the illustration at all, the publisher will find you an illustrator and then they will just read your text and illustrate it.
Sacha Black
Reason 185 million why you should probably be indie published.
Karen Ferreira
I agree. I can’t imagine writing a book and having no say that.
Sacha Black
I know neither can I! Yeah, anyway, I’m not trad bashing here. I’m just massively biased.
Karen Ferreira
Yeah, so I mean with us, for instance, you can say exactly what you want, or very vaguely what you want or just say read the text and do it. It’s completely open. And we as freelancers I think you’re going to have a complete range from the one into the other, some won’t be able to do it. If you don’t tell them. Some will do a fantastic job if you don’t tell them so it depends. And yeah, so but in terms of what you need to know it is a really good idea to go look at a lot of children’s books and picture books, which you should do anyway, if you’re writing one, but to see what kind of style do you like, firstly, I mean, you can obviously just start looking around for style, but you should, you should have an idea. And then it’s also a good idea to have a good idea of the kind of layouts that you can do you know, do you want just double page spreads for every page, you want, like some single page, little illustrations between the text, because, you know, we can help you with that if you come to us, and I’m sure a lot of illustrators will help you with that. But, you know, it’s good if you have an idea what kind of layout you want to have in the first place.
Sacha Black
Yeah. And so should they have things like mood boards? I mean, do those kinds of things help illustrators or do you have a… so I know when I go to create a cover with my now much loved cover designers. I fill out a whole specification. So they asked me questions like, do I have themes in my work? Do I have colors that I like or really dislike? Are there you know any red herrings do I mean? For example, do I really I one of the things that I didn’t want on my covers were people I wanted symbols know people. So that was a big red and not red herring red line for me. So do you do you tease those things out with your authors or should they come knowing that is it you know, how much do they have to have decided before they come to you?
Karen Ferreira
Generally will discuss that. Yeah, so it’s, you know, also you start with because they choose the style they want. You, you know, generally that’s not you’re not going to end up with something completely different, but also the processes you do Very rough sketch are often just a thumbnail sketch. So you can sort out a lot before you actually get to the full on illustration. So you’re not going to have this full blown colour illustration, that’s completely the thing you know.
Sacha Black
Okay. So in that in that is a perfect segue. So tell me about the process, somebody comes to you and says, Hello, I want an illustration. What happens? How do you go from initial query to published book?
Karen Ferreira
Right. So as you mentioned earlier, it’s super important to have a contract or agreement. So I mean, the first thing would just be to find out what the person wants like we said now, which you normally will have quite a few questions in relation to style. You know, which kind of things I do want, obviously, if it’s not clear, like is the character a girl or boy or six or 12? Or those kind of things? For sure. And then yes, about color, etc. As you see it’s all the stylistic stuff.f Firstly, before we do anything we put the contract or agreement in place. And if you getting an illustrator do not do it without something in writing because then well, anything can happen and you have no control whatsoever.
Sacha Black
And also read read a contract. Yeah. Yeah. Especially if you’re not the one giving the contract you are receiving on the contract. Make sure you read your terms and conditions.
Karen Ferreira
Yeah. And I mean, because there are quite a lot of variations and things to look for. But we won’t go into all of that now. But yeah, then basically, the first thing would be the kind of layout, like what sizes Do you want or the kind of pagination like, you can make a little mock up of the book, eat page by page or a storyboards normally a bit easier with thumbnail sketches, if it’s needed, you know, depends on the book if it’s just single page illustration, writing on the other side, single page writing something like storyboard isn’t very crucial. But it you know, if you want something a bit more creative is really good to think through the entire layout because obviously, the illustrations can add a lot to the creativity and the flow of the book. So once that’s approved, obviously, that comes with revisions or should come with revisions until it’s perfect, then you get into the character design and development normally, at least to get the main character perfect. So the author thinks Okay, this is this is what I had in mind, you know, and then then you can do full sketches. So that means just the full size sketch of every illustration, but just a roughish sketch. And again, with revisions should be and then of course, you can get into the full color so and full color again, can have some revisions, but if you’ve gone through the process really well, you know, there shouldn’t be any situation of oh, this is completely wrong, which is great for everybody.
Sacha Black
So do you format the entire book so that a file gets handed to the indie author for uploading or so how, where does that? So do they have you know, so I’m just trying to think about the page what they receive. And then what happens after that to take it to publication, do they, I’m guessing they have to hand you, they can’t come to you until they have a complete, edited finished story is that?
Karen Ferreira
Not necessarily, although it is, in a sense, a very good idea to get it edited? Because sometimes, obviously, in editing, they’ll be very dramatic changes. And then you know, if we’ve illustrated one thing, it might be wrong. And so yeah, it seems to be a better idea. Then we don’t do the we don’t do the formatting. We’re looking at getting into that but at this moment, we just provide you the illustrations, so you literally just have all the different ones, then you need to get a formatter someone who lay it all out for you with the text. Obviously adding the front in the copyright and the covers and so on. Okay, um, yeah. So because that is a bit of a that, that comes with other technical requirements and stuff. Yeah isn’t Yeah, illustration. So
Sacha Black
that is for anybody who does and I know we do have children’s book listeners. So for anybody who wants to create their own picture books, it is something to think about either learning how to do that formatting with pictures with text yourself, or finding a specialist for matter who can work with the illustrations, and I’m guessing Photoshop files or however they are they come and in the in the end, so that is something to think about. So let’s let’s move on and talk about legalities and copyright. Who owns what?
Karen Ferreira
Yeah, it depends is the answer. So mostly, illustrators actually retain the full rights to the illustrations which I think a lot of people don’t realize
Sacha Black
I didn’t.
Karen Ferreira
Which means it’s kinda like when an illustrator works for a company, they do the illustrations for you, you buy them, they’re yours. That’s it. I must say with the illustrators retaining the full rights, it can be a problem and it can be alarming. It’s not normally. But it does mean for instance you might not be able to use your illustrations in certain regions of the world without paying them again or buying extra rights. Or if you want to print a t-shirt a mug, stuff like that. You do want to check that because you might have all these ideas for promotional stuff and you can’t do it without buying more rights. And while it’s rare, if they have the full rights they can reuse your illustrations or other books. While it’s rare mostly they want to share on social media. I think most illustrators have enough pride they’re not going to put your main character in someone else’s book. You do want to make sure you know who owns what and what each of you can do with it. You do have to check that
Sacha Black
What about royalties?
Karen Ferreira
I’ve never charged royalties. I don’t actually even know that much about it, but it is definitely worth checking. My personal viewpoint on it is, obviously I think illustrators should be credited and get they due I mean, coming from an illustrator background myself, because especially in picture books, the illustrator makes so much of the book, but I’ve always viewed it the author is the one who goes and does all the promotion. And has to do all the work to get it sold. I’ve never seen an illustrator actually doing that part. So then I don’t feel this is my personal viewpoint, right. But I don’t feel the illustrator should really ride off that I feel they’re complete the work and the job is done.
Sacha Black
So but this is something you absolutely must have written into your contracts because copyright laws for the lifetime of the author, and depending on which country you’re in either 50 or 70 years after your death. So if you are in a contract with an illustrator that states they must have a certain percentage of royalties. You need to organize somebody to be paying them royalties for 70 years after you die. So lady really old? Yeah, no, no, but then that is the point with with ownership and right licensing, the illustrator and their children or family or whoever would then inherit that copyright. So you would still be liable to pay and this is why I’m saying it. So important to have it written in the copyright. And this is why there’s a great podcast episode on the creative pen with M L. I think it’s Buchman that talks about estate planning. And this is essentially this whole, you know what you do with your intelligent property rights after you die who inherits what happens to the money and the royalties? So yeah, if you’re interested in that, go and have a look at it. But to the point, Yeah, it is. It was a fascinating podcast. But the point is, this is really important. Do not assume you are going to own the full rights to everything unless it is written in black and white in your terms and conditions. And obviously, if you want to own it, and the illustrated it or company that you’re working with is not giving you that option. Perhaps they’re not the company for you.
Karen Ferreira
I always says, Well, I think some authors are actually fine to pay royalties, and that’s great. But yeah, do make sure exactly as you said, you don’t want your book done and then find out that’s a very nasty surprise. Exactly.
Sacha Black
So and the talking of naughty surprises. What should authors be aware of when approaching companies and artists for illustrations? Obviously, we’ve just talked about royalties and that royalty split, but what else should they be aware of?
Karen Ferreira
Right? So apart from the contract and the royalties, I would normally say the top thing almost as good communication. Because, you know, especially in today’s world with freelancers, someone who’s a foreign language could do a fantastic job, and I will never knock them and say they can’t. But I also know from experience, you know, you can hire some amazing artists, as you said earlier, from numerous different countries, and they cannot understand what you want and it can become extremely frustrating. So that’s why I also say that the beginning chat to the person and actually see that they can understand you and that they can communicate properly. I’m not saying they must be English first language fluent, perfect. But if you ask them a few questions, make sure their answers actually makes sense. Otherwise already at a red light, you know,
And then watch out as well for hidden costs. Sometimes there are hidden costs you get illustrator to, will not do revisions they like if you want anything changed, you have to pay extra, which obviously isn’t practical, because if something isn’t correct, or what you wanted, it becomes a big problem. So yeah, just make sure what the cost include, like, does it include a round of revisions, three rounds, what kind of things are included? And also another thing actually to watch for is that some people can do fantastic illustrations, but they don’t know any of the technical stuff. So when you get to again, when it whether it’s an E book or a print book, it might be the wrong format or the wrong size or You know, if someone draws something into smaller size, and now it needs to be printed, you can’t use it, it all has to be redone. So it might sound silly, but stuff like that happens and you know, then it’s a it’s a redo from the beginning.
Sacha Black
So it’s important to look for, like, their portfolio, I suppose to make sure they actually have, you know, a history of delivering, yeah
Karen Ferreira
Check they’ve done books. Exactly. And baby I mean, if it’s someone who’s never done a book, and you love the work and you want to give them a chance, and probably also get a better price because they knew, check with them that they understand what’s needed, you know, and and make sure you understand well enough, it’s not very complicated. But if it’s done wrong, as I said, it’s not too easy to go back. You can’t go back and done, you know.
And then also check about the timeline. If you have loads of time, like you said, your cover took a year so luckily, you had loads of time, but if you only had two man’s, you would have had to scramble. So check that, you know, do in their review. Sometimes it might say, oh, if it doesn’t make sure that you don’t see anything that someone says, Oh, they took forever, and I couldn’t get my stuff. Because if you want to publish your book in March, you need your stuff done in Feb, or whatever, you know. Yeah, like we have a little PDF, actually, that says a whole list of important things to consider. I don’t know if you’d like me to share that or not.
Sacha Black
Yeah, that’d be fabulous. Yeah, I will make sure I put that in the show notes. Okay, awesome.
Karen Ferreira
Yeah, because that’s there are there aren’t that many, but there are things that can make your experience pretty wonderful or pretty horrible if you know or don’t know about them.
Sacha Black
And so I’m loathe to ask this question because I know you’re going to say it’s a huge range of variable on on a multitude of factors. However, I have to ask, price… I know there are going to be a massive range but even ballpark of, you know, what should an author go in expecting so that they’re not and I’m sure depending on the complexity, it could be vastly more but is there a range of figures that authors should think is reasonable to pay? Because you know, I have absolutely no idea what you know. So if I went I would have no idea if somebody was giving me a good price a bad price. And obviously this is all relevant to 2019 we are recording this, but yeah, any even rough idea
Karen Ferreira
To say reasonable price is a dangerous. And honestly, does very, extremely, as you said, and I think a lot of it is your personal viewpoint and your budget. Some illustrators will charge 2-3-4 hundred dollars per one page illustration which You know, a lot of most children’s books are 32 pages, or maybe 24. But the 32 page book often is then in excess of $10,000 sorry, I don’t know in pounds but which for most people’s, obviously way out of their budget, especially for indie authors, I mean, that’s Yeah, it’s a lot of money. So I think you know, it really does firstly, come to your budget, but of course, also you might have a big budget, but just go I don’t actually want to pay in excess of 10 k. So, you know, I mean, with freelancers, I think you can probably start getting illustrations from $30-$40 but that’s for entry range newbie, kind of people I would say. So I would just check who you working with, as I’ve said many times, but yeah, then it can definitely be up to 3-4-5 hundred four even single page.
Sacha Black
Yeah, I mean, that is helpful even because I literally had no idea what kind of prices. And I think that’s really important to share that kind of information. Because, you know, it’s very easy for an indie author to be ripped off if they’re going in and don’t have any idea of even a price range of what’s realistic. So that is super helpful.
Karen Ferreira
Okay, you can you can probably get away with $2000 you know, depending who you work with. Yeah.
Sacha Black
Which is much more reasonable
Karen Ferreira
If someone charges you eight, you don’t have to pay it. Yeah, yeah.
Sacha Black
Okay, you are running a conference. Now, by the time this airs, the conference will be over. But I think if I’m right in, in, in my thinking, listeners will still be able to get access for a very small fee. So would you like to tell everybody a little bit about the conference, the content and the wonderful speakers might be,
Karen Ferreira
Well, school children’s book mastery, and it will have a lot of content that on that does. It isn’t just for children’s book authors, but we made a children’s book mastery so we can really just focus in on an area. Some of the wonderful speakers include Sacha Black. And then yeah, we have quite a range like Ray brim. Lori Right, Lisa Cartwright. Sure, I’m forgetting this is quite a few. But specifically, I invited speakers with a wide range of skills so that we can cover different things. So that you know, whoever speaking about that topic has actually nailed that topic in practice. That’s the main thing. The reason for the summit being a conference being that I work with authors obviously pretty much every day and I really want to help them succeed, because to me, it’s kind of sad when you illustrate this beautiful book. And it’s a beautiful story. And obviously, the illustrations, I think are beautiful because we made them. But honestly, if you knew we’ve done some gorgeous books, and you see the person putting it on their little site, and I don’t know how many they sell, but I’m pretty sure five or 10, or you know, or sometimes you see them putting the book on Amazon. And in each one review in the next six months, you know that it actually breaks my heart a bit.
I’m like, it shouldn’t be that way. Like they put their heart into this book. And so I wanted to put the summit together almost like a course that takes people from A to Z with self publishing, you know, how do you start writing? How do you actually finish your book because some people are like, I’ve always wanted to write but I can’t sit my butt in the chair and write you know, and, and then all the nitty gritty, you know, how do you get it formatted and edited and how do you pick illustrator, and how the hell this Amazon you know, KDP work and stuff like that. Yeah. And then specifically also for what I just mentioned, the marketing and the promotion like how do you get people to see your book and buy your book and how do you use maybe free promos and things like that so that people actually notice you.
Sacha Black
Amazing. Yeah, and I am honored and delighted to be speaking. So, I will. So people listening when this airs, I will have already done the promotion, but I will be talking about this to all listeners. So hopefully you’ve already heard of it. If you haven’t, then I will be including all of the information on how to access it in the show notes. Anyway. Okay, this is my favorite question. This is The Rebel Author Podcast. So tell us about a time that you unleashed your inner.
Karen Ferreira
Yeah. So, I mean, I’ve never seen myself as a rebel, but I’ve always been kind of weird and different. And I’m very non traditional, you know, like with health and well being and I’ve never had a real, quote unquote job. I don’t own a TV. But having to find a specific time I thought, okay, when I was 20 I shaved my head.
Sacha Black
I love it. Yeah,
Karen Ferreira
it was lovely. I’ve always been like, I wish I could just do it again. But now I’m too nervous. Yeah, I was one day, I was actually ironically working on a piece of a design and painting a design by hand and it was this very geometric thing. That was just a pain in the butt basically. And I’d all I’d wanted to shave my head for a few months, you know, I was toying with this idea. And I was like, I hate this thing that I’m painting. It’s and I just got up and I just shaved head as a way to escape i think but I was so happy I did it. It was awesome. And then yeah, I actually did it again like a year later so.
Sacha Black
No I love that I love it I caught I caught two feet off my head or no not no just just under two feet I think of my head when I was 18 because my mom loved I think I’ve told the story already but my mom left my hair so much she was like you cannot have your hair cut. So I was like 18 before I’d been to hairdressers and when I went to university and I have this really I know my hair looks straight but it is super super curly. And so I just I cut it I the hairdresser plaited it and then just cut this entire plait off my hair
Karen Ferreira
Two Feet?
Sacha Black
Yeah it was down to my butt so I mean it and it came right up to basically a pixie crop so no yeah,
It probably felt awesome and like
I cannot believe how heavy hair is I just yeah, it was it was amazing. Okay, so we are out of time our listeners where they can find out more about you, your company and and the conference.
Karen Ferreira
Okay, so our website is getyourbookillustrations.com and you can find us on Instagram and Facebook as well with get your book illustrations.com. The conference, as I mentioned is called childrensbookmastery.com So the URL is children’s book mastery. com Also one word obviously no apostrophe for the children’s book. Yeah, and then on the site, I’m sure we’ll be putting up the conference when it’s ready. But I mean, you can just go straight to that think. Okay, super. And I will of course include all of those links in the show notes.
Sacha Black
Okay, thank you very much to all of my wonderful patrons, who get early access to all of the episodes as well as a monthly bonus exclusive patron only material if you would like to join us on Patreon and support the show you can do so by going to www.patreon.com/sachablack and that is Sacha with a C. Thank you very much to everybody listening. And thank you very much to Karen. I’m back. You’re listening to Karen Ferreira and this was The Rebel Author podcast.
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003 – How to Market Nonfiction Books With Boni Wagner-Stafford
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