008 – Amazon Ads for Authors with Bryan Cohen

Welcome to episode eight of The Rebel Author Podcast. Today, I’m talking to Bryan Cohen all about Amazon Ads for authors.

But first, in the introduction, I ask: what’s your 2019 reading goal? Did you hit it? How many books have you read this year? Let me know in the comments or tweet me @rebelauthorpod

This week’s book recommendation is Atomic Habits by James Clear get your copy on Amazon UK or Amazon USA.

Don’t forget, if you’d like to watch the Scrivener metadata tutorial in January, join the 13 Steps to Evil Facebook group.

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Listener Rebel of the week is Claire Good.

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Thank you to the two new patrons this week Meg and Holly. If you’d like to get early access to all the Rebel Author episodes, you can support the show by visiting: www.patreon.com/sachablack

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Amazon Ads for Authors with Bryan Cohen

More about Bryan

Visit his Facebook page for Best Page Forward

Follow Bryan on Instagram

Are you ready to earn more profit from your Amazon Ads? Click and register to enter the 5-Day Amazon Ad Profit challenge! https://upvir.al/ref/Wy29975462?track=twitter via @bryancohenbooks #selfpublishing #IARTG #ASMRG #amwriting… Share on X

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Episode Transcript

Sacha Black
Hello and welcome back to The Rebel Author Podcast. Today I am with Bryan Cohen. Bryan is the CEO of Best Page Forward, an author copywriting agency that’s written over 2000 book descriptions for the author community. His books have also sold over 100,000 copies. He’s also the creator of Amazon Ad School and the five day Amazon add profit challenge. Welcome.

Bryan Cohen
Thank you for having me. Sacha. I’m happy to be here.

Sacha Black
You are most welcome. It’s an honor. I have listened to the Sell More Books show for years. So it is a great pleasure to finally get to talk to you in person. So thank you very much.

Bryan Cohen
Sure. We’ve had emails.

Sacha Black
We have, I’ve joined some of your webinars and read Sizzling Synopsis, which I love, and if anybody hasn’t read the book, I highly recommend it. So tell listeners a little more about you, your books, your business and how you got to where you are.

Bryan Cohen
Sure. Well, I started publishing in 2010. So I got in early doesn’t mean I did a great job when I got in there early. But I originally started by repackaging together some of my blog posts into a book. And that was a book of creative writing prompts. I’ve always just really gravitated towards helping writers and as a writer, myself wanting to help me to get better too in the process. And so that was kind of the beginnings of it. As you mentioned a few years after that, I started the Sell More Books Show podcast with Jim Kukral. And that’s been amazing. We just recorded Episode 289 today, which was wild. I know this will air later, we might be close to 300 by then, but yeah. It’s been really interesting to follow how the industry has changed and grown and my business has changed from just writing books to then writing book descriptions to doing courses to running challenges and all sorts of craziness. So there’s like, a lot that has happened over those nine years. But the the theme that really seems to kind of keep bringing it back is just helping the authors who are able to, you know, listen to the stuff I’m doing, help them to sell more books, and I will try to sell more of my own books too, but that’s really been secondary to… I just love authors, and I love writers and writing and so just helping people do their thing.

Sacha Black
I always think it’s really interesting because I fell into publishing and much the same way in that I wrote a lot of blog posts because I’m seen all I needed somewhere to write down all of the things that I was learning, which inevitably helped others as well. But so I always wonder, is that really such a thing as altruism? Because, you know, we’re here we’re helping, but actually, we learn from that process of helping other people as well.

Bryan Cohen
There’s always a selfish reason behind everything, but better to do a good thing for a selfish reason, then not do any good things.

Sacha Black
Oh, absolutely. I completely agree. I had a question from from a patron who wanted to ask you about your courage. Recently, you’ve done several things in the public eye from Relentless Authors Advertise—your podcast, where you publicly took everybody through your advertising challenge, and also to the very specific AMS ads challenge. So talk to me, talk to all of us about why you should decided to do that why you decided to go down the road of sharing so publicly something that was really in its infancy.

Bryan Cohen
We’ll start with the altruistic reason. And then we’ll go into the selfish reason. The altruistic reason is and I’ve had a couple of people in that show, Relentless Authors Advertise is on hiatus, it was about 32 weeks or something where every week, I shared what I spent on my ads, and what I earned in royalties, and I did have my month of May which was like a big loss. Fortunately, the other months were pretty good. And I think one month was even like the opposite of May with with 100% ROI, but I wanted people to see that. It’s not just guessing. And it’s not just luck. And it’s not just the people at the top of the heap running ads and other people can’t do it. Like I don’t have a giant big selling fiction series. My business does well, but no one really wants to know that stuff in the author world. They want to know books and how the book sell and how the ads work. And so I thought, well, if every week I just share exactly what I’m doing. If I share every bit of it, that hopefully people will find some benefit in it. And I got a lot of people who said like, I love that you shared when you screwed up because we don’t see that too often. Right? Like, we’re hearing the big wins and then it’s connected to selling something and and a lot of the podcasts are focused on big wins for good reason. It’s almost like the opposite like news, where like bad stuff sells news, but good stuff sells podcasts and products. But yeah,

Sacha Black
I know I completely agree because I was listening to your last episode where you said Actually, let’s have success stories from people who have gone from two figures to three figures or three figures to four figures, that’s so true. Whenever, some of the very large Facebook groups have numerous posts from people I’ve had 100,000 I’ve had they also inspirational, but also for some of the authors who are just beginning it’s actually really overwhelming and sometimes it’s not encouraging. And, but yes, okay, sorry, anyway, your other reason?

Bryan Cohen
Yeah, so the non altruistic reason I wanted to increase I wanted to improve my own book sales and I wanted to learn the platform better because I’m obsessed with knowledge. I don’t remember what this was. It was either in high school or college when I was with my parents. I seriously do not remember the circumstances behind this. But my my mom had to share like what her greatest worry was about me. And that was really great. My mom and I have a great relationship. But she said her worried for me was that I would never stop, wanting to learn things and I’d be so focused on learning things that I guess I wouldn’t live life or I wouldn’t find my way. And it’s kind of funny because I’m falling into something where I do need to keep learning, but it’s getting to teach that I always quote Stephen Covey the old, “Well, sure, there’s lots of ways of learning but one of the best ways of learning is you teach it” because you retain 90% of what you teach. So if I just keep teaching whatever I just picked up about Amazon ads, and I’m still learning, absolutely. I’m finding out new and interesting things to try all the time. But the non altruistic: there’s one is I learn it and two I can teach it. So lots of selfishness.

Sacha Black
And so what what were your main learning points from it?

Bryan Cohen
Well, I think that I proved out for me and a lot of other authors I’ve gotten a chance to work with that. The answer when an ad isn’t working is not necessarily, let’s increase our bid. Let’s tell Amazon to take more money out of our account. That’s not in some cases, you’re making money hand over fist, your conversion rate, which is how many clicks it takes to get a sale or a Kindle Unlimited, full book read, if it’s like three clicks leads to a sale. And I’ve been fortunate enough to have a couple of those and like, yeah, let’s keep spending on those. But if you’re not in that boat, which 99% of the author community is not, then you shouldn’t just say well 40 cents and work was bumped to 60. Let’s bump to 80. Let’s bump to $1. Then all of a sudden you’re like, wow, I lost a lot of money. And it’s because profit needs to be the number one focus and to have profit you need to spend less and make more. Which seems like, Well, duh, but based on what I’ve seen people actually do it’s not necessarily the rubric that people are following.

Sacha Black
Oh, yeah. So you’ve you recently, at the time of airing it will be not so recent, but you recently completed your five day, AMS ads challenge, and but you’re intending to launch another one. So can you tell listeners a little bit about the challenge, what it involves and how they can participate?

Bryan Cohen
So this was wild like imagine that when you’re going through like, a course, like any of the courses, because there’s a lot of courses we all know that there’s all sorts of courses. So imagine that when you’re going through a course. It’s not just you doing it. Like, you aren’t just the only one in your room watching the video. There are actually 800 to 1000 people all doing it at the same time. And so when you’re having a problem with something, you can go message someone else you can post in a group, you can say, like, I have no idea, I touched Excel and it blew up. So I can’t put these keywords in here. What do I do? And there’s a bunch of other people doing it at the same time, some of whom are in your genre, some of them aren’t. And that was kind of like my experiment. There’s been challenges all over. I’ve seen challenges that are like, the million dollar challenge five day million dollar and I’m like: what does that even mean? Because… are we supposed to like rob five bank in five days? Like I don’t even know. But this was the Amazon add profit challenge. So the goal was if we sat however many people would show up together all during the same week to watch the same videos, create the same ads using the same free systems. All of it, nothing require that requires any any money in there. And we all did it the same time. In an effort to have at least just one profitable ad, that was the goal. It wasn’t a million dollars it was can you get one ad that is spending $2 and you make $3 like we’re not looking for miracles here. Would it work and it didn’t work for everybody. Certainly I didn’t expect it to. But through people sitting down, doing the challenge all working on it together, it was pretty amazing. There were there were authors who had just never had never understood it. Like maybe they’d created as they heard about it on a podcast, they created something they lost 10 bucks. So they stopped, who never really understood it first and foremost, but then just really understanding that concept of profit. Whoa, I spent $3 I sold $6 worth of books. I made money. And so that was what the challenge was, there was homework and extra credit. I did not expect this Sacha. But I should have known because we’re all nerds, right? Like, I’m sure you were a nerd. I’m still a huge nerd. So when there was an a chance for extra credit, we all did it. And because we’re all word nerds, and we all did it. And so I put this extra credit. I’m like, I don’t know if people do it, but I’ll give them something to do. And so many people did it. And so it was kind of like, the homework was like, create two ads, and the extra credit was like, create 10. And then someone’s like, I agreed in 39. It’s like, just people just going all in on it. And we all got to work on it together. And I learned so much at the same time. And so a day in, I’m like, well, we’re definitely doing it again. And so we are going to do it again in January, but like, that’s what it is. It’s like this free for all class social experiment, sort of thing. And it’s just it was wild.

Sacha Black
So this is more from a point of technicality. Having run a lot of ama sides over the years. Is five days long enough to see profit? Bbecause some of my ads take a week before they they really kick in. So when I saw it was five days I was like, really? I mean, obviously you can. But yeah, I mean did you see a lot of people getting profit?

Bryan Cohen
That was the thing I didn’t know. Yeah, I did not know. I was like, I don’t want to make it too long. I don’t want to make it like a 30 day challenge because people are going to tune out. I wanted to try and I will say there was a slight cheat in there. There was prep work day, days before the challenge began. So it was really about eight days but still eight and five days not that different. And yes, dozens of authors posted about turning a profit or and some who didn’t turn a profit It said. Okay, I didn’t turn a profit, but I have never sold like this amount of copies of this book. And if it’s a loss, I’ll take it because I’ve never seen this happen before.

Sacha Black
Amazing. Okay, let’s get nitty gritty. And I’ve got my nonfiction AMS ads down, but I know that a lot of the listeners are fiction writers. So talk to me talk to the fiction authors listening. What are some really tangible actionable tips that people can go away and implement now?

Bryan Cohen
Well, I think the biggest tip I can say is that think of what would feel like a crazy amount of ads for you to create, and then multiply it by 10. And that’s how many ads you should be creating. Like, man, 40 would be a lot. All right, 460 would be a lot 600 like, I’ve walked a lot of people through the process of all right, you do some testing, and then you use the testing and you put that to the next level. People like, oh, the next level that sounds good. Like I’m ready for the next level been doing this three days. ready for the next level? I’m like, No, you don’t understand. There are authors. There’s a great author out there. James Ross own right. I’ve had the pleasure speaking with on the phone. And he posted one of those 20 books posts that $500,000 over the course of I think 18 months, and I was speaking with him about ads and in his post just saying like, yeah, so I do the same exact strategy I get, like hundreds and hundreds of ads going, I keep researching I find the also bots I go deeper I go deeper he’s still he’s done a lot of what I call second generation third generation ads hundreds of thousands of dollars of book sales is continuing to do keyword research and so now he’s like my go to I’m like, look at him because he didn’t jump to the next level he said no, like I’m creating more ads, more targets more research. And I think the number one thing I can say to fiction authors is keep hunting for more targets and creating more ads.

Sacha Black
The follow up question was, was he wide or is he in KU?

Bryan Cohen
I believe he’s in KU but I can I can definitely look it up. And I can talk about I can talk about KU on this for sure.

Sacha Black
I’m wide so I’m more interested in in knowing how to get the ROI working on wide. I mean, obviously, there are going to be KU listeners, but I think it is naturally easier to get a good positive ROI on your AMS ads if you if you are in KU because obviously you get additional page reads, but I think it’s a lot harder to get a positive ROI if you are wide, because obviously you don’t have the the extra possibility of page reads.

Bryan Cohen
Oh, yeah, I mean, your book needs to convert better because if you in the formula—and we all love formulas, right?—Because we’re all math people. In the in the formula. It’s really how many clicks does it take you to get either a sale or a full read. And if you take full reads out of the equation, then you know you need to have that figured out how many clicks does it take to get a sale? That’s the only thing you can get. If you’re wide, you need to make sure you know your numbers cold for how many clicks it takes. And what your read through is because you have a smaller margin. Doesn’t mean you can’t profit. I know authors who are wide, who do exceptionally well with Amazon ads, but they have a longer series usually. Look you you’ve made things more complicated for yourself by being wide. That’s just how it is. The decision to like, well, I’m cutting out Amazon on KU second biggest platform, but I don’t care. I don’t want it to be just I don’t want to just depend on Amazon. I see there’s an ideological component to it. Like I’m not letting them get all my stuff. Harrumph and I get that. I really do. Rebel, rebel, rebel. So you’ve complicated it more for yourself because you need to now figure out what’s my conversion rate on Apple? What’s my conversion rate on nook? What’s my conversion rate on Kobo? And you also need to be applying to Kobo promos running bookbub ads on all of those platforms, running Facebook ads that are targeted to that specific demographic. But if you actually went down the line, you spreadsheet it out like crazy. And said, Well, this is my conversion rate on all these platforms. So I know, this is how much I can spend for a click. If you knew all that data, and your series as long enough so you’re getting good read through. You could absolutely make Amazon ads work for you. It’s a challenge. Entirely possible though.

Sacha Black
And I think for people who are listening who are perhaps at the big Beginning of their series and are frustrated that they are not getting, you know, ads that are hugely profitable, just keep writing and publishing because, most authors especially if you are wide you need 4, 5, 6 books in a series and or a nother series before you can really start to see that sale through. And so, yes, and also excellent segue. I wanted to ask you about data. So when you work with AMS ads, or actually any ads for that matter, and you have to deal with data, and obviously most of us are word-nerds like you said, and we are not fans of data. I am not a huge fan of data. I play with it. I…I Well, I kind of pay lip service to it mostly. But I do try. But there are a lot of dataphobic people out to Particularly authors who are still desperate to create ads on all of these different platforms. So what do you say to those authors who are perhaps afraid of data and getting it wrong and, and spending loads of money that they perhaps, you know, well it’s an investment so I’m loath to say that they don’t have it but… you know.

Bryan Cohen
No, I understand exactly well. Start with profit. Start with not 900 points of data. Advertising cost of sale, aka ACoS, aka a bunch of crap. This is a stupid statistic. Start with profit. Look at a month look at your past month. If you ran if you ran ads, you can look at your past month based on how much you spent and how much you earned. If you see I spent $10 and I made $30. Which number is bigger? If the profit if the if the royalties are bigger, you made a profit. If the ad spend is bigger, you had a loss. And that’s where it begins. I have a couple clients, it’s really interesting a couple folks who do like nonfiction and such. And I have one client who this was really nice, spent $150 made $2500. And I basically said to him, it is my goal for in our working relationship for you to see what would happen if you spend $1,000. Because with that kind of profit, because it’s a large profit in that case. And if you have a large profit percentage was you spent $5 and made $80. It’s a very similar kind of thing there. My goal would be for you to see what would happen if you spent $50. Would you then all of a sudden make $800? You don’t know. And you don’t have to look at all the other numbers. You don’t have to, you can make it very, very simple for yourself. If there’s a wide gap, and you’re spending a little bit on ads, you’re making a lot more in profit than try to close the gap and see if it continues to widen. And so to make it all real simple, just focus on one number. And then if you aren’t profiting the second number to focus on is conversion rate, because if you run the numbers you say “ah crap, so I spent 10 and made one.” So you look at your numbers, you’re like, well, I got 30 clicks and only one person bought. Well, that’s pointing to… I like to say this is my new favorite line. “Your data tells a story” and if you keep working on that maybe you get to 100 clicks, I always like 100 clicks versus just 30. And you see, okay, only three people bought. Then you say, all right, something is wrong on my sales page, because that’s what conversion rate means some 100 people got to your page and 97 people said, nah. So you have to figure out what made them say nah. And it could be your cover, your book description, your number of reviews, your title. And so, if you’re profiting, try to spend more. If you’re not profiting, figure out how many clicks it takes for someone to buy. And that is literally all you need at this stage of the game. We don’t need Amazon ad 303 course that’s taking us to figuring out your click through rate and your keyword duplicates and you’re just product targeting ads and all sorts of stuff that you don’t need. Because it’s too early.

Sacha Black
I think there’s, I think there’s something in that around a mindset shift because we, I think certainly newer or… I know when I came in and I was first starting to advertise you… Even when you do make profit on your ads, there’s still this fear around, well, if I spend more what if I don’t make money? But actually, the whole point is that you have data, you have hard facts. If you are spending $10 and making $100. Why the fuck wouldn’t you spend $100 to make $1,000 you know?

Bryan Cohen
I’d forgotten this was a saucy podcast.

Sacha Black
Oh, yeah, sorry. Yes. Oh,

Bryan Cohen
You know I used to be an improv comedy? You know how many f-bombs I would drop on a weekly basis? Worry not.

Sacha Black
Yeah, I know we I do. Yes, I have a very bad potty mouth I am known for it. I have to what’s the word? Censor myself whenever I’m on anything else. But I, yeah, I couldn’t be bothered with that when I was going to interview everybody. I just need to not censor myself. Yes. So. Mindset shift, I just think that authors have to really swallow that actually, if you want to make money, you are going to have to spend money and if your ads are profiting, just spend more, because you will make more. But you also segued again—it’s almost like I planed these questions—into your sales page, and I can’t speak to you and not talk to you about blurbs. And so as I said, I think I’ve even written a blog post about how good your sizzling synopsis book was. But do you think there’s a formula to writing a blurb that authors can use as a starting point?

Bryan Cohen
Well, I think there are, there are notes to hit. Like, I have my formula. I mean, you’ve read the book, people have read the book, start with a hook, synopsis, selling paragraph call to action. I said it a million times. But if you don’t want to follow the formula, that’s fine. But there are certain things you want to make sure you get in there, having some kind of hook some kind of top line thing and making that first. I’ve actually I forget who I was talking to, but they were playing with putting social proof first, like they had a bunch of review quotes, and they move the hook down, and their sales dropped like a rock doesn’t mean it would happen for everybody, but it’s like, well, like I would have preferred affected that happening because before you give them social proof of a review or a testimonial, even if it’s from someone big, readers need context. Can you prove to them that this book is in a shondra? They like, and that it’s interesting, and it has an interesting hook to it that would make them excited as a reader of that genre. If it does, but that hook is like, buried, and they’re like, this book is amazing. It’s like, I don’t care about this clinic. But if it’s like, the world is going to explode in five days, and a baby is the only one who can save it. Well, that sounds interesting. I’ve never heard of a baby saving the world before. So let’s go into it. And then it’s like, this book is amazing babies. I love it. Like, wow, I didn’t know babies could read and then they buy it. You need that context in there first. So I love to talk about what the synopsis and in you know from the book, it’s about a character. It’s about what the characters going through. I don’t think that I see a lot of blurbs that are like 15,000 years ago, this thing happened and like, I don’t care and neither will your readers, because they’re not in this you love your story so much. But if it’s in the context of David’s ancestors have always been burned at the stake. It’s like, okay, like what’s happening here, as opposed to the 15,000 years ago because it’s a person because it’s someone they can connect with. If you’re like, I hate selling paragraphs, I hate calls to action. Fine. Get a hook in there get an interesting character in there, and you’re going to be ahead of so many other blurbs.

Sacha Black
before I move on to the next question, love the narration voice by the way.

Bryan Cohen
Thank you. I appreciate it.

Sacha Black
So, carrying on with hooks and taglines… Adam Croft is famed for his hooks and taglines, but he also says that he doesn’t think every book has a hook. So can you talk to an author who’s struggling to find their hook, they’ve written the book they’ve got to the end they’ve got it to publishing and you know, there’s a there’s emotion in the book etc, etc. But they are struggling to find something punchy to catch a readers eye. What should they do? Where do they look for that hook?

Bryan Cohen
You’re lucky because I just posted a video about this haha actually, it might not even be out yet. But I’m ahead for like the first time in my life. Every hook of a book should be about one of three things. It should either be about death, love, or enlightenment. The third one’s usually more of a literary fiction thing. Because someone’s coming to some realization about himself or about the world, most genre fiction is going to be death or love, who’s gonna potentially die in this book, or who’s potentially gonna fall in love. I don’t know, a fiction book that would not fall into one of those three. And if it’s not death, maybe it’s maiming, but whatever. You need to pull one of those threads. Not every book has a hook fine. But if it’s a romance book without a hook, then the hook is the romance and the characters involved in that romance. Maybe your sci fi book doesn’t really have a hook but if there’s a character who’s studying some cure to a zombie outbreak or something, then it’s like, well then that’s the hook. You need to find and the hook being like everyone will die unless he figures this out. So, death, love or enlightenment, that it’s very unlikely you’re going to be able to not pull one of those things out. I mean, look at Adam Croft’s, would you murder your wife to save your daughter that’s got death and loving it so that’s why it’s a double plus good hook.

Sacha Black
Amazing. I’ve never thought about it like that but thinking about it as you were saying it I was like, Oh, yeah, they really are one of those three. Go taking mental notes…

Bryan Cohen
Rewatch my podcast later. Yeah.

Sacha Black
Okay, this is my favorite question always. This is The Rebel Author Podcast. So tell me about a time when you unleash your inner rebel.

Bryan Cohen
So I you know I told you before this that I don’t look at the questions but I scrolled through and I saw this one I was like. Okay, I’m still not going to think of an answer about it beforehand. Such a rebel. I remember this was on stage at the first 20 books conference in Vegas. And I was kind of going along I had a lot of energy I actually have on my wall I don’t want to take it down because the tapes not going to work anymore. But someone wrote on a paper plate whatever drugs Bryan is on I want some that’s on my wall. Because I had a lot of energy and so I get to a point in the presentation, where I’m just like giving action steps and telling people what to do. And I kind of like I could tell there was a violent In the room of just like, I have to do stuff, and then I just started yelling at them. And this is on YouTube. So like, I need to like find exactly, I should just get the one minute clip of me yelling at people because I know that it’s on there. I don’t watch like what I do afterwards, but I’m just yelling at them. Like, if you don’t do this, if you don’t take any action, you don’t do something to distinguish yourself, then a year from today, you’re going to be in the exact same spot. And it made me realize that sometimes there just is that need for the tough love. Like a couple things that don’t happen at often in the author community. There’s the sharing of the failures by influencers or whatever. And not just like, Oh, I work too hard and I I got burned out because I worked so hard because I’m such a hard worker… That wasn’t a failure. The failure is like I lost 1000 bucks in May. But the other thing is, we don’t see a lot of tough love. We don’t have that many tough love people in the community. And so every so often, I get on my tough love rebellion. Maybe I’ll do it I’m going to be in Vegas. I think this is going to air after that. But like, in 2019, November, Vegas, it’s not the way things are ordered. But I might yell at people again, because if we don’t actually do the work, we’re not gonna make any progress.

Sacha Black
I love it. One of the reoccurring phrases that happens to come out on this podcast is suck it up princess. So I love it. Okay, so tell listeners where they can find out more about you, your books and your podcasts and also your ads challenge.

Bryan Cohen
all of the things so this link will be live when it goes up it is not live yet but it which is always like the magic of podcasting bestpageforward.net/challenge. So if you go to bestpageforward.net/challenge, you are going to be taken to the page where you can sign up for the January 2020 day Amazon add profit challenge new and improved. Everyone will be back from the first one. So my hope is that there’s thousands of people in this so go to bestpageforward.net/challenge. I don’t even know if I shared this with you Sasha but sell more books show which is been running like 9 million years. We’re doing video now. So if you like listening, but you also like seeing faces, then you can do both will have that on Facebook and YouTube and places but if you listen to a podcast like this, and you want to listen to more podcasts. You can listen to The Sell More Books show every single week. We’re here. It’s crazy. I don’t know how it happens.

Sacha Black
Thank you very much. So thank you to all the patrons supporting the show. If you would like to get early access to all of the episodes, and you can do so by going to www.patreon.com/Sacha Black. Thank you very much to all of the listeners. Thank you very much to Bryan for his time and for all of his top tips. I’m Sacha Black. You are listening to Bryan Cohen and this was The Rebel Author podcast.