Hello and welcome back to The Rebel Author Podcast, I’m thrilled to host the lovely H.B Lyne today as we talk all about how to world build covering both fantasy and non-fantasy settings. But first…
In the Introduction
I mention the two blogs I’ve been writing recently, both covering audio resources. The first was on the audio resources I’ve consumed recently and the second was all about how to build a DIY audio booth no matter the amount of space you have.
Next up, I was honoured to be on the Great Writers Share podcast hosted by Dan Willcocks. He has this fantastic interview style where he really goes deep and gets into a person psyche. We cover topics like why sniffing books is a good thing, your motivation as a blogger, overcoming fear and how to absorb and use what you’ve read long after you’ve finished reading.
You can catch the podcast episode right here.
Want Some NaNo Support?
November beckons the month of word-vomit that is NaNoWriMo. For once, I’m actually taking part. But what I find with NaNo is that for all the benefits it creates encouraging word counts, it can also create problems. Problems like comparisonitis especially when you’ve had a bad day and you see someone else has managed 10,000 words. So I’ve put a blanket ban on discussing word counts in my Facebook group In order to create a more supportive environment. What we’re doing instead is using thumbs up, down or an okay emoji to determine how our day has been. Or thanks to an amazing suggestion from Tom, we’re also using the middle finger emoji for when our characters are being rebellious. If you’d like to join a group where you can be accountable without the pressure of comparisonitis, come join me on Facebook.
Listener Rebel of the Week is Icy Sedgwick, find out more about her on her website. If you’d like to be a listener rebel, then email your rebel story to rebelauthorpodcast@gmail.com or tweet me @rebelauthorpod
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Welcome to new Patreon Alison Ingleby, thank you so much for the support.
Don’t forget, you can get early access to all the podcast episodes by supporting the show on Patreon. I’ve just posted October’s exclusive post which is chock full of resources all about novel outlining. Thank you to Sarah for the topic suggestion. If you’d like to get early access to episodes as well as bonus exclusive writing and marketing help you can by visiting: www.patreon.com/sachablack
How to World Build With H.B Lyne
How to World Build with @hblyne #indieauthor #selfpublishing #IARTG #ASMRG #writingcommunity Share on X
You can find out more about H.B. Lyne on her Instagram, Facebook, Website and Podcast. You can find her latest book on Amazon and Kobo
Sacha Black
Hello and welcome to the rebel author podcast. Today I am with HB line. HP line lives in Yorkshire with her husband, two children and a cat. We’re not juggling family commitments, she writes dark urban fantasy novels, purging her imagination of its demons. Inspired by the king of horror himself. Holly aspires to be at least half as prolific and successful and promises to limit herself to only one time of the stand like proportions in her career. Other interests and idols include Joss Whedon Great choice by the way, and Robert Kirkman. And she will often be spotted wearing TWD or Firefly apperel. What’s TWD?
H.B Lyne
The Walking Dead?
Sacha Black
Oh, okay. Yeah, I mean acronyms phssst. Welcome, thank you so much for joining me today.
H.B Lyne
Oh, thank you for having me.
Sacha Black
So tell us Tell everybody listening a little bit about yourself your writing journey and how you’ve gotten to where you are.
H.B Lyne
Okay, it’s kind of an age old story I’ve been writing since I was old enough to hold a pen. And I got into writing screenplays as a teenager. And when I went to uni to study drama, film and TV, it was with the intention of becoming a screenwriter and director. But life had other plans for me. And I ended up dropping out of that degree, and completely changing direction and doing a philosophy and religious studies degree instead.
Sacha Black
Oh, wow.
H.B Lyne
Yeah. Yeah, a bit of a change. People always surprised by that. So yeah, so I ended up finishing my degree with the Open University and kind of stopped writing stopped reading stopped everything. And then it was few years later, and when my eldest son was tiny, that I started writing because I think I needed something for myself outside of being a mum. And so yeah, so I started writing. And I had this story in me that just had to be told. And when I finished, like the first book, and I knew that it was going to be multiple books, I had it kind of planned out as a series. And honestly, I need to share this with people I, I was so like, moved by the power of the story that I really wanted other people to read it and be moved as well. So I leapt into self-publishing without really thinking and without really knowing what I was doing. And yeah, and here we asked, that was in 2013. So I’ve published five novels now, and, and it’s been crazy, and I can’t believe I would never have thought back in 2013, where I would be six years later. It’s Crazy.
Sacha Black
It’s wonderful how we ended up where we get to and I actually had a very similar experience when I went to uni. So I was kind of a prolific bibliophile before I went to university, and then you end up spending so much time reading journals and academic scripts or whatever, that I just didn’t want to read a goddamn thing. So I yeah, I pretty much didn’t read for three years. And well, that’s not true. I read a lot, just not fiction. And then when I left, I then started reading and very rapidly fell into writing. And it’s funny that you said when you had your son, if you have a son…
H.B Lyne
Yeah
Sacha Black
So when you when you said when you had your son that you then wanted something else? That was very similar experience to me. You do I think… Obviously, not everyone who’s listening will be a parent, but I think mothers particularly In those first few months, especially when you’re off work, you kind of lose yourself a bit. And you do then. Well, I certainly then wanted something to kind of re-find myself. But anyway, we are here to talk about world building. Yeah, you are a world building Pro. So talk to the new author… Where…? Where the hell do they start? Because world building is tantamount to playing God. So it can be really overwhelming.
H.B Lyne
Yeah, good question. I’m blushing a bit. Are you calling me a pro.
Sacha Black
Oh, really? Okay. Of course you are, of course. Just take it.
H.B Lyne
I think the best place to start is wherever inspiration has struck. So most writers when they have a new idea, they already know the genre. You know, they they’ve got some concept of what the story is going to be. So go from there. So what do you absolutely have to figure out for your genre? And for your story, and what is it that sparked the idea? So for example, my last novel In The Blood was sparked off when I saw John Wick chapter two. And I was totally inspired by the Roman catacombs. And I had this idea like, what if the Camorra gangsters were vampires? So I started with these catacombs, and vampire gangsters and the whole world came out of that starting point. So just take it one step at a time, ask yourself, why is it this way? And what needs to develop from that and so on?
Sacha Black
And so I guess, do you think that every genre starts from a different place or do you think it just genuinely is derived from wherever people get inspiration?
H.B Lyne
I think it’s wherever you get inspiration because not everyone who writes in the same genre is going to will build in the same way. And it totally depends on you and your temperament and the specific idea that you’ve got. And for me, it’s been different from book to book as well. It’s not even consistent. Like, you know, throughout my entire back catalogue, it’s, it’s varied.
Sacha Black
Okay, so anyone can start from anywhere, but
H.B Lyne
I’m sorry that’s so vague.
Sacha Black
Okay, so right anyone can start from anywhere, but obviously there must be key parts of world building that everybody needs to include. So what are those key points in world building that every, every writer needs to hit?
H.B Lyne
Sure. Okay. Obviously, again, it depends on your genre and your story. If you’re like, writing hard military sci fi, then you don’t need a magic system. And if you’re writing paranormal romance, then you probably don’t need futuristic technology. So start with your genre in your world and your story setting. And I think, always ask yourself, why and peel back the layers of the world. So whatever you are including, you’re going to need. If it’s a very personal story, you’re going to need a home and a place of work and, you know, an immediate environment for your characters. And if you have got, if it’s a bit of a grander story, then you’re going to need to look a bit further, you’re going to need to think about education and government and the landscape. So, you know, look at what you’re story needs. Things kind of bolt on. I kind of see world building as like, really modular, but at the same time, everything is connected. Absolutely everything has ripple effects. So I’d say you have to think about your immediate landscape that no one could get away from that. Even if you’re writing and non-fantasy setting the real world you still need think about the immediate environment of your characters. So that would be, I guess, a good baseline?
Sacha Black
And do you think somebody needs to think about all of those things before they start? Or can they just jump in? Or
H.B Lyne
It depends on you as a writer, I mean, I, I am very much a build as I write person. So I’ll start writing without really developing the world very much and it just grows out of the writing. And that’s it. So my main series, my flagship series, the world that that setting was more or less created before I started writing the books, but that’s because of how it came about. It was a bit unusual. It was loosely very loosely based on a role playing game that I had participated in. So a lot of the world elements there, but I had to completely change them. So it’s not to infringe on any copyright issues. And so I had to consciously sit down and completely rewrite the world. So that not many writers are going to be in that situation.
Sacha Black
Well, yeah, I suppose unless they’re writing let’s RPG and then I, but then I think it’s them creating their own game kind of… or are they?
H.B Lyne
Yeah.
Sacha Black
Yeah, I don’t I don’t read lead RPG so I’m not entirely sure of the rules but all the tropes I should say, how do you keep it all straight?
H.B Lyne
I have notes. I’m a really analog person so I literally have notebooks and I write everything down. I write my drafts in Scrivener, so I use the folder system for that to collect links and things to any research and images and stuff like that, but I write everything down in my notebook. I use them sort of like a Filofax notebook so you can move the pages around. If I need to expand a section if I need to add another character to my characters section of my notebook, I can move pages and stuff like that.
Sacha Black
So I do something quite similar. I call it my Bible, my book Bible. And in there just by way of some examples, I keep things like timelines, key dates, character names, spellings and capitalizations. I keep in there because I write fantasy, so I make up shit, which means it’s not in the dictionary and I need to know how to spell it. I also include geographical locations. I include information about powers I then have an entire table of my characters and in that it has descriptions because you can bet your ass I will describe it as thin and then four chapters later they’re a bit of a chunky monkey. Sometimes I include connections as well. And what else do I put in there? At the top of each of my chapters, I have a quote of some sort, whether it be from an ancient script in the world or a law, and I have put all of those into their relevant sections because some are repeated. So I’ll have lots of things from The Book of Balance or whatever. So I just wanted to give some tangible examples of what goes into those kinds of notes, basically anything you could fuck up put in your Bible.
H.B Lyne
Yeah, I my big weaknesses. Eye color. I’m forever like, oh, it’s never come up before. And I’m like, have I already mentioned this in a previous book? And of course, I haven’t got that kind of thing written down. And I always have to skim through my books, right, but they mentioned What color his eyes are?
Sacha Black
I only did it because I don’t typically reread books and when I came to write the sequel to my first book, I had to go through and literally underline about eleventy million things in my book. And I was like, I really should store this information somewhere. And it did what? It didn’t make a difference, because when I came to write the third, I still had to read the sequel. But, yeah, basically my memory is shit. But it does help because sometimes I’ll refer to the book Bible rather than my book. But I was, I was interested in one particular thing that you said about the concept of wealth building being modular. I never thought of it like that and it jogged me. And I don’t know if this is a question or not, but one of the things that I have not really included in my books, which are fantasy is a monetary system. It’s just never been relevant. So I don’t know why that is. But can you talk a little bit about when a writer should bolt another module on?
H.B Lyne
When story needs it. It may be that if you’re writing a series where the world just naturally expands its inevitable. So you may have a new fantasy creature that you haven’t had before. And, and oh, they have magic. So how does that magic work? So you just, you just take it or this is how I do it anyway, one step at a time as far as the story is concerned. I think it would be so easy to just world build forever and just go on and on and on. But that isn’t getting your story written. So I do think always come back to the story and always just ask why? I go on about that all the time. Why? Why? Why? Because I just think it’s really important, because you need to understand the whys, even though most of the time, you’re not going to put that into the book of lies, it would get to exposition, but you need to understand it so that you have consistency.
Sacha Black
And so that you know why your characters are behaving the way that their behaving because whether or not you put it down and exposition, the reader will implicitly see the justification. And so that leaves me I’m kind of skipping through my questions here. But that leads me to another question. When is enough, enough?
H.B Lyne
Like I said, it’s so easy to just get lost in the process. So always just keep the story in mind. And for the most part, and the world that is my primary sandbox has been, like I said, created as I write, so I think that’s my best advice really is don’t actually separate world building from the writing process itself. It’s part of the same thing. And I fairly recently I was taken to calling what I do ‘novel craft’, because that incorporates all the aspects of it. That’s the first draft and the world building and the structuring and the editing. It’s all of it. It’s all part of one thing. So yeah, don’t don’t separate it out for yourself because that’s just making my part for yourself.
Sacha Black
I spent an entire year plotting before I started writing, and then I was like, wow, it’s been whole year. I haven’t written a thing. Yeah. You definitely need to be cognizant of when enough is enough. And if you are not getting words down, it’s definitely enough.
H.B Lyne
Yes.
Sacha Black
What classic mistakes or newbie mistakes do writers often make with world building other than not starting? Which I made.
H.B Lyne
I think glossing over things or not having a clear enough idea themselves about why things are the way they are. That really irks me when it’s just like a hand wave and no explanation. That’s not going to cut it for me as a reader I I need a bit more depth than that. I read something quite recently where the world building was just so poor and I was just cringing like every other page because it was so flimsy. There was this whole other world that humans know nothing about. But how? Why? How has no human noticed that there’s this entire city here? You haven’t explained that? Is it shielded? Is there magic protecting it? Is it hidden? Do humans a bit like muggles in Harry Potter? Do they just kind of see an illusion when they look at Hogwarts. Just tell me. I don’t like not knowing.
Sacha Black
Yeah, and I think the thing here is, the simpler, the better. I know sometimes more can seem like it’s more, but this is one of those occasions where less is more. And if you have a very simple justification, especially if you don’t want to complete your world building before you start, it is much, much better for you because you are far less likely to write yourself into a corner, because you’ve written something complicated. And then you need to undo it. You want to push publish you can’t undo it. It’s funny because I’m at this middle point in my series, where I’m trying to wrap up a lot of the early bits of the arcs and because… This series was the first series I wrote, I wanted to put everything in it. And I it’s just so fucking complicated. Like, I’m just trying to get rid of loads of shit just kill everyone off, just kill them all. It’s the same for the world building, if you can give a very simple justification, like it’s an illusion or whatever. Readers suspend their belief of reality. They go in expecting to have to do that, so it’s okay to keep it simple.
H.B Lyne
Yes, yeah.
Sacha Black
So, talk a little bit about world building that’s not fantasy.
H.B Lyne
Yeah, sure. So I think all authors of genres need a certain amount of world building. You still need to create like, fictional businesses, homes, schools, you know, places that you’re characters are going to go and locations they’re going to interact with. So the key is to be consistent. You need to make sure that the bits you makeup gel with the bits that are real. So for example, if you are writing a novel set in London, about a journalist who works for made up newspaper. You need to set the newspapers offices in maybe in a real building in the right part of London. Or a made up building, but one where the architecture is consistent with the street that it’s on. Maybe have your character go to a coffee shop that is actually real, but just changed the name of it. And, you know, make it so the reader can recognize the real world and not be able to tell where the real world ends and the fictional world begins. It’s hard to do and you need to do a lot of research and that’s a big reason why I don’t do that. I write fantasy so I can make it all up.
Sacha Black
Yeah, you can’t be wrong that way. Unless you break one of your own laws, your world building laws. Okay, so some quick tips or tricks to world building what do you say to people who want to world build and just are afraid. What quick tips and tricks can you give them?
H.B Lyne
Cause I’m so into it, it’s really hard to go back to that being at the start and not quite knowing where to start. So, and I think as I’ve said, repeatedly go with your story and peel back the layers. Always ask why. And take it one step at a time. Don’t think that you have to have the whole world written all at once. Just take it as you need it and just add bit as they occur in your mind. If you’re still plotting, it doesn’t have to be while you’re writing the draft because that could be scary for some writers who need to feel that they have planned things. I get that I’m a discovery writer, so I’m fine with just writing and letting it come as I go. But I know some people need that structure, I guess. Look at your story, look at what you need for it and create as you go. I think that’s the best tip I can give.
Sacha Black
And I think one of the things that you were saying that I’m just gonna tease out a little bit more so you were saying about including things as they become relevant and there you mean relevant to the hero. So to prevent information dumps or these gigantic descriptive three page long word vomits. They should you should only include world building elements when it’s relevant to your hero. And the best way, I think to describe, and to build these worlds in the minds of the readers is the way that the hero relates to the world. So how does this… I don’t know this, this is a shit example. But how does this building make the hero feel? What senses does it evoke? Does it evoke a memory that’s relevant to a plot point? Or, what are the smells and the sounds that the hero is not only smelling and hearing and tasting and touching, but how do they make him feel? I think all of these stories are about an emotional journey. And that’s really important for world building as well. It’s about the emotional impacts the world has on the hero. I don’t know if you…
H.B Lyne
Yeah, I definitely agree with that. And no matter what, whether you’re writing in first person or third person, you have a perspective. Your narrative voice has a perspective. So everything about the world has to be observed from that point of view. So if you’re if you’re writing first person, then yeah, it’s absolutely everything. Everything about your world is seen through the eyes of your character, whose point of view are using. And so there may will be things they simply just don’t notice. They’re just not on their radar. And so don’t worry about that. You know, world build what matters to your character. Whether they know it or not. You have to know it.
Sacha Black
Yeah, yeah. And I think that is definitely the quote of this interview. World build what matters to your hero, or your protagonist or your character? You have a course…
H.B Lyne
Yes.
Sacha Black
Okay. We don’t know whether or not this course will be open at the time of this airing, but it could be at the time of listening in the future. So tell everybody about your course.
H.B Lyne
Okay, it’s world building quest, and it’s something that I am creating with my business partner, Angelina Trevena. We have a podcast together. Which is the Great Western Woods World Building podcast. And we decided that podcasting wasn’t enough, we needed to expand the way that we were serving people. So we are developing a course and basically, students are going to get some hand holding. And we’re going to help people to develop their worlds in ways that make sense for their story, and that are sustainable so that they can then go on and create many, many more worlds in the future without so much help. But we will also, you know, always be around for advice.
Sacha Black
And where can listeners find your course?
H.B Lyne
Best place is going to be our website, which is Great Western woods. dot com.
Sacha Black
Perfect. Now this podcast is called the rebel author podcast. So everybody, everybody, everybody winces at me when I start asking this question it cracks me up. But I don’t care. Lie if you have to. Tell me about a time that your inner rebel was unleashed.
H.B Lyne
Do you want a strictly professional example?
Sacha Black
God no.
H.B Lyne
Okay, well, I have never tried to conform so it’s not so much an inner rebel as an outer one. Okay, do you want to hear about the time I walked into a hairdressers with waist long brown hair and said chop it off and dye it pillbox red. Or do you want to hear about the time I arrived at Hospital in labor presented a printed contract for the midwife and the consultant and said, Give me a lotus caesarean.
Sacha Black
Both
H.B Lyne
Well, yeah, I’ve always done crazy things with my hair. I’ll grow it really long. And then hack it all off, get a pixie cut and dye a bright color. I do that all the time. Amazing. No, that’s not a big story. Really.
Sacha Black
I did the same. I had butt-length curly hair. And my mom always said I wasn’t allowed to chop it off until I didn’t live under her roof. So I went to university and promptly chopped the whole thing off. The hairdresser was like, Are you sure? Are you sure? I was like, get rid of it. She cried. My mom cried. I’m sorry, mom. I’m sorry.
H.B Lyne
Yeah, the hairdresser told me that I had made her day because normally she just had to do the same boring things. And it was really rare for someone to come in and say completely change how I look. So that was nice.
Sacha Black
So lotuses caesarean.
H.B Lyne
Yeah, okay, so I’m a lotus birth is where you do not cut the cord. Ever, because it naturally separates on its own after a few days anyway. And basically, I’ll try and keep this short, but it’s a long story really. My first birth was very traumatic. And it took quite a lot of effort to heal from it. And I knew that for my second birth, everything had to be completely different. So we completely opted out of the NHS, we hired an independent midwife. And we were planning to have a lotus birth at home. And this is a home birth after cesarean or H back and which in itself is a bit rebellious and but then add in the Lotus element, which hardly anyone has even heard of, and it tends to raise eyebrows. And so this is our plan. And but the labor did not go according to plan and we had to transfer into hospital and basically during my first birth, I had been subject to a catalog of cascade of interventions, and most of which were without my consent. So the big thing for me was staying in control. And I knew that at the very, very least, if I had to go into hospital and have a caesarean, and it, we have to let the cord pulse out, because that’s just so, so important. And this was like seven and a half years ago, and it was just on the cusp of the changes that have now happened and people now realize how important that cord blood is. And they didn’t at the time, so saying, No, no, we’re not cutting the cord immediately was a big deal. And in order to be sure that they didn’t just snip it straight away. I had like a legal document that was this, “these are the terms under which I will agree to this procedure. You have to do as I say.” And they agreed they they were up for it, and my independent midwife came with us and she explained this was great. This is like the highlight of my life. The midwife telling the consultant how to do her job.
Sacha Black
I love it that’s so rebellious.
H.B Lyne
So yeah, so we went into surgery my abdomen was opened and baby was born and then held while the cord continued to pulse. And then the placenta was delivered. And then my son and the placenta were both handed to me. And yeah, it was the most empowering thing I’ve ever done. And incredibly rebellious because so weird. There’s like three people in the country who’ve ever done that. And one of them.
Sacha Black
Amazing, true rebel. I love it. Okay, where can everyone find out more about you and your books. And your podcast?
H.B Lyne
Okay, so my website is HB line www.HBlyne.com. I’m on Facebook, it’s facebook.com/authorhblyne. I’m particularly active on Instagram. It’s my favorite social media. So you can find me there @HBlyne. You’re probably spotting your trend here. And mine and Angeline’s podcast. We are the Great Western Woods World Building podcast, and we’re on all platforms. We’re on Instagram as well, which is @GreatWestern WoodsPodcast.
Sacha Black
Perfect. Well, thank you very much for being our guest today. Our? My! Apparently I’m two people now. Thank you, everybody for listening. If you would like to get early access to all of the episodes, you can do that by supporting the show on Patreon. That’s www.patreon.com/SachaBlack that is Sacha with a C. SACHA. Thank you very much, Holly. Thank you to the listeners. I’m Sacha Black. You were listening to HB line and this was The Rebel Author Podcast.
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