Hello everyone and welcome back to the Rebel Author Podcast episode 14. In today’s podcast, I’m speaking to Kris Kennedy all about how to write romance.
Last week I was talking about diversity and sensitivity readers, Val Neil shared a couple of helpful links for sourcing sensitivity readers which you can find here and here.
Today’s episode question is a slightly selfish one. What do you guys do for a book launch? What do your favorite authors do? I’m starting to turn my thoughts to the launch of The Anatomy of Prose and the types of things I could do, so let me know what you’d like to see me do for the launch.
My book recommendation for you this week is Instructions For Falling In Love Again by Lucy Mitchell which I had the pleasure of reading before it was published.
You can find the book here:
Amazon UK https://amzn.to/36Hk9Bm
Amazon USA https://amzn.to/2Ucelx8
Please note these are affiliate links.
Listener Rebel of the week is M.J. Moores
If you’d like to be a Rebel of the week please do send in your story, it can be any kind of rebellion. You can email your rebel story to rebelauthorpodcast@gmail.com or tweet me @rebelauthorpod
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How to Write Romance with Kris Kennedy
Find more about Kris here:
To watch the Romance Writers Summit, click here: https://www.romancewriterssummit.com/a/17934/LDcwJMX4
Please note, that is an affiliate link and I will earn a small commission if you choose to purchase the conference
How to Write Romance Episode Transcript
Sacha Black
Hello and welcome back to The Rebel Author podcast. Today I am joined by Kris Kennedy. Kris is a USA Today best selling author of romance. She writes historical and contemporary romance teaches classes is a developmental editor and story coach and runs romance Writing Lab. She is also the organizer and founder of The romance writers conference. Did I say that right? romance writing
Kris Kennedy
Summit. Summit, but that’s fine.
Sacha Black
Oh, it’s British. I always call it conference. I’ve been in a couple of other ones that I keep calling conference as well. Romance Writers Summit, which will you be doing another one because obviously by the time this airs, it will have been and gone. Do you think you’ll do another one?
Kris Kennedy
Yeah, I think so. I think people are really loving it. And that’s kind of the vision came together just a bunch of crafts people getting together and talking stories. So I think so.
Sacha Black
So is that is there somewhere that we can direct listeners to where they can find out more or sign up to hear?
Kris Kennedy
Yeah, this one is really easy to remember. It’s romancewriterssummit.com
Sacha Black
Perfect. Okay, let’s let’s get it good. Get him up late here. I haven’t had Gin I have obviously not had enough coffee.
Kris Kennedy
Well go get some
Sacha Black
I’ll be right back… Only joking. aaah, right.
Tell everyone a little bit about you and your writing journey and how you got to where you are.
Kris Kennedy
Well, I write romance, as you’ve said, but for a long time, I didn’t read it. It wasn’t for me whatever that meant. I think I thought it was above it. I’m even though and I’d forgotten this for many years. I read my grandmother’s old Harlequin romances when I was a kid I would just scoop them up. And, you know, because I was just reading anything, I would read the back of a tissue box. Anything I could get my hands on. So I read all those, you know, the doctor and nurse kind of romances. But as an adult, I didn’t remember and I avoided romances, the covers, and they made me uncomfortable. And I don’t know, I think they seem to be telling me something about myself that I didn’t want. And if I picked them up, like I’d be that person. Um, but one day, I was working my way through my library, I was on a mission to read any and every book that looked even remotely interesting, starting a day and going to Z. And I came across, I came across, obviously a bunch of romances as I went, but I came across this one historical, and it was set in Ireland, and I was like, all right, fine, I’ll do this one. And I finished reading it. I don’t remember in a day or two and the day I finished reading, I was up until three in the morning writing my first romance.
Sacha Black
Oh my goodness.
Kris Kennedy
I know. I know right. Sometimes those things you avoid like the plague like it’s good avoid them. There’s a reason but other times maybe there’s something there that you know, it means something a little more and check it out.
Sacha Black
That is amazing. I love that I am I did that with science fiction and I refuse to read Day of the Triffids for ever. And then I think it’s because and bless my mom, she’s probably listening. Hi mom. She gave me a copy of it. And I think, you know, it’s just the inner rebel in me, you know, anything that I’m told or asked to do, I just have to rebel. And eventually I read it and of course, she was absolutely right. I absolutely fucking loved the book and just totally fell in love with, you know, that kind of dystopian sci fi fantasy, all that kind of stuff. But yeah, that’s, that’s hilarious.
Kris Kennedy
way to go, mom.
Sacha Black
You are an editor as well. So I think we’ll talk a bit about romance and specific tangible craft things. But let’s talk about story structure. There are some things that are very, very universal to all stories. But there are also some quirks and specifics that are very unique to each genre. And I guess you can talk about those as tropes or you know, even the story arc, there are points that are specific in each genre so, talk to an author who is just coming into romance and what key aspects of a romance and a romance structure must they hit.
Kris Kennedy
In a lot of ways, I mean, the structure is the same. What I think is different is what is prompting and promoting change and The tensions and difficulty conflict in the story. But in romance, you’re juggling more than you are in a lot of other genres. I know a lot of fantasy have multiple arcs for multiple characters. But in a lot of fiction, there’s the one main character arc and the plot, you know the storyline. But in romance, you have two or possibly more full character arcs with two characters who are changing, sometimes they’re changing a different amount. So their arc is bigger or smaller, shorter or longer. But there’s two of them. There’s one for each and you have the plot. And you have the romance conflict and the romance arc. And that has to be intertwined with all those but never overtaken the romance always has to be primary.
So I guess in other ways, it’s kind of different from other genres. It’s really more complicated, the romance genre, I think it’s a bad rap and a lot of ways as being very simplistic and formulaic, but it’s a lot to juggle, um, I think related to the the story arc itself, um, some of the key differences or focus that people would want for romances at that 10% point which is like that inciting incident or catalyst moment that’s in in it any fiction when something is tossed into the characters world that they can’t ignore and they have to respond to, it upsets the balance of their life and in a romance. That is or involves the other romantic lead at 10% is when that romance conflict is launched. The romantic leads are forced together usually by some external event, and they don’t like each other or they don’t get along, or they do like each other. But the external forces are working against the romance either actively or just as a function of that external thing, you know the character who’s trying to move a bunch of condos into small town and the other character is you know, opposed to that.
But as for all genres, but kind of, especially for romance conflict is queen. Um, there has to be a really strong reason that the leads can’t just fall in love on page 25. And you’re building that all along, but you want to be establishing it at that and by that 10% Mark, and then you can build on it, but there needs to be the reason they can’t just fall in love. And then at the midpoint, that 50% point, in fiction and film, this is a big moment in the story. Um, it’s almost always some kind of reversal or a change of goal for the character and in a romance. That reversal or change is a pro romance change. In some way, they’re choosing the other lead in some big public way that they wouldn’t have done before. And that is, that’s a key thing. One of the things it can sometimes be, and I can have my cake and eat it to moment for a character, they can be like, well, I can still get my goal, but this person matters too. But they they make some choice and they do some action that is public and declares for the other person or shows their allegiance or alignment with in some way that they haven’t done before. And then you get that 75% that all is lost that moment pit of despair kind of thing. And that’s in all fiction when the character has lost everything. And they’re realizing as a result of that. All the things that they did up till now that weren’t enough and they realize they have to change. They realize what they have to change what they’ve been getting wrong and what they need to do different and in a romance. Obviously, the all is lost in The romance is lost. And then what they do after that is directly related somehow to reuniting with or proving themselves or rescuing the other person, somehow they give everything up for the other person. And again, it’s it’s a big arc a big change from what they would have done at the beginning, what they would have been willing to do at the beginning. And ideally, that act three stuff is some kind of sacrifice. They have to give something up that serves the romance or the other lead in some way. So I think those are the things that from a story structure perspective can help people really nail the romance.
Sacha Black
Yeah, I think that’s amazing. I’m like, in my head, I’m like, Oh, I need to write that down. Thank god this is recorded, I can re listen. I think one of the one of the interesting things that I picked up in there is how And obviously this is important in any genre. But for romance specifically that arc is it, there’s a lot of importance placed on the energetic it, obviously romance is emotional, but for the characters particularly, and the sacrifice is much more likely to be some kind of an inner sacrifice than it is perhaps in I don’t know, a fantasy where they might need a magical sort of villain death or something, you know. And, I think the the thing where they do overlay to the other genres, is that sacrifices always, you know, the the hero sacrificing something is always very important. And obviously, the bigger the sacrifice, the more the readers cling to it. Which leads me on to my next question. So how do you create a romance whether that’s a main plot romance or a subplot that has readers on the edge of their seat? What is it that romance writers do that makes the reader fall in love with that romance? I suppose that relationship
Kris Kennedy
Yeah. Well, um, I mean, in the end, it’s the same as for any other genre, it’s conflict. Um, but like you were saying a moment ago, it’s romance is inherently character driven. And it’s about people changing. And so that is, is super important. And then it only increases the need to have really solid conflict. I talk a lot about building remarkable characters. And I think that’s the key. You know, some stories have an awesome plot like this big plot that’s just so crazy awesome. And that that can suffice for some stories, you know, alien invasions, dinosaurs on the lose Great white shark, um, but in general, the best stories have a protagonist, two arcs. And that’s how you can have a really powerful story with really seemingly small external stakes. And yet it’s still so moving because the journey for the character inside themselves, the transformation they go through is exactly what you said a bit ago.
It’s so big, they’re so different at the end than they were at the beginning. They’ve learned some kind of lesson. And you know, for what it’s worth jaws is my favorite movie ever. And police chief Brody, he definitely has an arc and that makes that story stronger. So I think that what we really want in a romance but in any story, but especially romance is you want someone who’s different at the end than they were at the beginning. And part of that difference is you want the character to feel different about them at the end than they did at the beginning and that’s usually the result of the journey that they went through. But it’s someone who has issues and beliefs and emotions and the story just punches them in the face. And it tests every single one of those beliefs, it makes them face emotions they didn’t want to face. And it, you know, shows up their inadequacies at that kind of personal level as the story progresses. And so that in the end, when they’ve lost everything, there’s nowhere to hide anymore, and they have to face whatever they have to face, and they have to change and then do the thing that must be done, whatever that might be. But it’s the key is that it’s something they never would or could have done at the start.
And that’s why it’s so important. And you can sort of reverse engineer this to whatever you’re going to end with and you might not know this till you’re on draft three or 13. But whatever was happening at the end Go back and make sure you’ve built a character at the beginning who could never have done that thing were wouldn’t have. And in a romance in that thing is them connecting to the other person, like we were saying it usually involves some kind of sacrifice and taking some risk to choose the romance a risk emotionally, like they have to face those feelings or those beliefs about themselves. And also in the external world, they might have to give up some goal or in danger or give up on some secondary relationship that used to matter a lot, but now they realize it’s not what they thought it was or they don’t get to be who they need to be in those other relationships. Um, and, and they do that because something else matters more now, and it’s the other lead and sometimes that end part is them, wanting to be with the other person. Sometimes it’s rescuing. that other person, sometimes it’s letting that person go. But at its heart, it’s about them and then the other person comes back in romance. But it’s, you know, the end and I think that is what makes people really stay up late reading on the conflict is big enough to make them doubt it will happen, even though they know they’re reading romance or the reading of sci fi or they’re reading a mystery. They know, you know, the mystery will get solved or they’ll get their happily ever after or you know, the the world will be saved in a thriller. But, you know, the genre gives us the the destination. But we as the storytellers are writing a conflict filled story with a character who at the beginning, we could never imagine them doing what they’re going to have to do at the end. And that’s, I think, what makes people stay up late reading.
Sacha Black
Yeah, absolutely. I love that. I honestly, I genuinely I’m gonna have to go back and re listen to this because I’ve just all of the things I want to write all of them down and I can’t because I’ve been listening to you. And the thing I want to expand on there was the doubt aspect. And I think that is, it’s that tease. So you know, readers of romance know damn well that it’s going to have a HEA at the end, which is happily ever after for people who don’t know what HEA is. And, but despite that, you still have to create enough doubt that they doubt it, even though they’ve read 100 romances before.
And, and, you know, even in other genres, the way that you do that is you toture your protagonist, you know, you make everything an obstacle, everything difficult. Everything goes against their own values and their morals. And yeah, I just I love that and I’m excited about this, tease of a romance story that doesn’t even exist!
Kris Kennedy
I think about it as I sometimes talk about it as calibrating fear and hope or doubt, and hope and fear, it will never happen and hope that it can. And every scene, you’re tipping that balance, you’re making them a little more fearful or a little more hopeful. And just back and forth. Yeah.
Sacha Black
Yeah. I love it. I love it. And I do love love that you say that is? I very, ever write a story without some kind of element? Yeah.
Kris Kennedy
It’s in so many stories like yeah, said even as a subplot or, you know, in save the cat story method was screenwriting, you know, story structure approach, which is really powerful. They talk about that whole idea and it’s, yeah, I mean, I think it’s central to story.
Sacha Black
Absolutely. So let’s get really nitty gritty. Are there any specific craft techniques that listeners should be aware of that helped to fully immerse the reader into the relationship? And by that, I mean, should writers be focusing or trying to think of essential word choices? Is it more about metaphors? Is it about describing the physicalities of touches or creating pictures around emotion? What should a romance writer do at the sentence level?
Kris Kennedy
Mm hmm. I think the writing techniques will definitely vary based on your voice and the tone of your story. So you can have slam BAM in your face, raw senusal tension or you can have a slow build and a graceful dance of passion and desire, and they both work or they both can work. The key I think is whatever you’re going to do to build to it. So if your voice is one that is very lyrical and metaphoric, then do that, if it’s more straight up bare bones then do that. But however you do it, do the build. Generally we think about sexual physical connection building with like, first glance, and then a longer, more direct look. And then physical cues, interest of smiling each other touching the hair or, you know, those kinds of things. It’s sort of you could do it from across the room while you caught someone’s eye. And then there’s the non sexual touches and then there’s the sexual touches and they can move through sort of a progression of you know, mouth and then the upper body, the lower body, clothed, unclothed you know, first base, second base, all that stuff, and you can get a lot of power with that development of how they’re physically close. And it’s great that can be great for intertwining character arcs with romance, because each one of those things will affect them and be pushing them to change a little or trying to resist it. But you can also get serious passion power from skipping a few of those steps along the way or a lot of them um, it really again, it depends on the story and the voice.
But another key in addition to building to it somehow and that’s that longing, peace you know, however you however many of the build up steps you go through there’s, you want to have some longing before you have some satisfaction. Um, and then but another key is to make it forbidden somehow. Somehow being with this person is forbidden. It can be internally in their own mind or heart they can’t or shouldn’t be with this other person. For some reason, or it can be the external kinds of no go zones. You know, it’ll mess up secondary relationships or some external story goal or plot, work that kind of thing. But for whatever reason, they can’t ever do the thing. That means making a choice to be with the other is a risk sexually to be with them is a risk and then they do it anyhow. And then what you need. Another key is to make the sexual however much there’s over active sex or sexuality in your book, to make it have consequences. So every time there is some escalation of the physicality or the romance, something gets tested and changed every time there’s some kind of consequence, every ramp up of their physicality or their inner thoughts and longing about the other person maybe changing their opinion about that person. Everything that drives them closer to the other has some consequence and it can be a personal one like interior stuff. They can, you know, can be emotional or psychological they can feel emotions, they don’t usually feel with the person and and then you ask, well how to how do they respond to that? Does that make them pull back and run away? Or are they like, hey, actually, I love feeling this, this is great, and it helps bring them out. You can play with it any way you want. It just needs to have some consequence. Um, and, you know, it can also be then the external consequences, um, you know, maybe they, they’re loving this so much they get distracted from their external world pursuits, and that will have consequences. Or maybe other things in the external world get more difficult because of the closeness and intimacy that they’re having with the other person. So, and that those consequences, when we talk about consequences, it’s always a bad thing, but it’s, it’s not consequences can be great, um, for a while. Um, so I always I think of it kind of like a movie. When does that happy, upbeat inspirational music start playing? When does you know have an ominous boom Oh, something’s happening. It’s playing in your book too. It’s just quiet. So you want to work with those energies.
Sacha Black
I think I’ve just had about 8000 epiphany number one, you fix something in my current novel, so thank you. That’s awesome. Just the the, the whole escalation and consequence has just made about 8000 Penny drops. So thank you for that. And I wanted to the other major epiphany that I had which is very crass, but I’m gonna say it anyway because it’s my podcast. So basically every romance plotline ever is one big orgasm with a lot of foreplay. That is literally how you write a romance. You do a whole heap of foreplay, and then a big ol’ climax at the end.
But the other thing, victory, I never going to be able to think of romance in any other way other than that. The other thing I wanted to say goes back to something you mentioned right at the start, which is about however, somebody’s voice is in terms of the sentence level of craft creation. And I think it’s also very genre specific. So as a young adult writer, and I can’t really well, I mean, Sarah J mass has written quite a explicit books. But broadly speaking young adult sexual experiences in fiction are typically focusing more on the emotion and how they feel in that situation. Whereas when you move into an adult, obviously romance bit or bit fantasy or plot, you can obviously then have a lot more description on the physicality of things. But my point here is that you should read your genre to know what’s acceptable, know what the limits are, you know, it might be that the upper end of middle grade you’re allowed to hold hands and maybe a kiss on the cheek but nothing I don’t know. I don’t write middle grade. My point is you do need to check and also it might be different in in the sub genres even of romance. So yeah my words have gone…
Kris Kennedy
I know exactly what you’re saying. And I think it’s a really good point. I mean, the the kiss on the cheek. can be the climax the orgasm. I mean that can be you don’t. Again it’s all that it’s the longing and the forbiddenness and the consequences and the build up to it that can that will make a thing powerful so the smallest act romance or otherwise can be infused with such significance if you build to it properly. I’m to the holding of hands I can’t think right now but I feel like I’ve seen a movie where that like two characters decided to hold hands was just like, like wonderful it was you didn’t need anymore. You didn’t need to see or hear anymore. You knew that that thing happened. And as you were talking to I was thinking one of the things that often happens is that 50% Mark, when we were talking about story structure, that is often when if it’s going to sex happens for the first time in a romance or whatever the most furthest along sexual behavior, so clinical, that often happens at midpoint, because that’s that reversal big change claim the other moment. Now the character hasn’t has not finished their journey. They think they’re done but you know, they still have a long way to go. But um, yeah, because it’s such a powerful thing, but it doesn’t have to be like you’re saying it know your genre. And, and but anything can be the orgasm so to speak. Yeah.
Sacha Black
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. variety in your romance life. This is definitely going to have a have explicit lyrics on it. Okay, what rookie mistakes Do you often see in romance stories?
Kris Kennedy
I would say and it’s not just rookie, um, I would say it’s all related to conflict, um, either, you know, too much or not enough. And when I say too much, I mean, we see all the reasons why these romantic leads can or shouldn’t be together. But we never see what I call the promise of them. You have to show the conflict of them and the promise of them, why they should be together, why we’re rooting for them. And you need to start doing that right after you throw them together. It may be generally you’re doing it in the scene where you put them together to you know, that 10% and then certainly the scenes afterwards, you have to show also why they want to be together why they should be they, you know, there’s some affinity between them. There’s some way they click and they’re right for each other, but then there’s all this other conflict. You can’t just overload on conflict and tied to that is weak conflict. I’m We’ll see this generally happy couple having happy times, and there’s no reason they shouldn’t be together, or a weak reason that they shouldn’t, you know, something that like reasonable people would figure out pretty quickly what they need to do because this person’s great and I want to spend, you know, the rest of my life with them. Or a lot of romances, um, can be just a bunch of arguments and hating on without any real driving motivation for them to be opposed to the to the other person and to being with them, which ties to, you know, these are all intertwined, but a third conflict related. rookie mistake is that recycled conflict, characters keep having the same argument or problem over and over again. You want to build in enough reasons for them to not be with the other person, whether its internal or external, ideally, both. I’m mostly so that you have something to tap on later. And and, you know, basically let their argument about who’s the biggest ass die after the first one, because it should change things a little, even if they don’t admit it. Um, it has consequences, like we were talking about that argument shouldn’t keep happening because it should have had consequences, internal and external, um, they’re changing a little each time, and therefore the next argument should be different.
Sacha Black
Yeah, and I think I think the thing that’s really important here is to remember that fiction is not reality. It is it is merely a representation of reality. We all know we’re all going to have this same argument every evening about what’s for fucking dinner. No reader ever needs to read that. We all have very, very repetitive arguments with our spouses because at the end of the day, we’ve all been together forever there is nothing else to argue about. But that is that is reality and not fiction. And it would be very boring if that was the conflict in the story. But I think that yeah, I think it’s really important. This escalation, each argument or point of conflict is an escalation on the previous one, which means there has to be a consequence in order for it to be escalated.
Kris Kennedy
And push the story forward. Things are different now.
Sacha Black
Yeah. Oh, I’ve got so much editing to do. I’m weeping with both 50% joy and 50% absolute horror right now.
Kris Kennedy
I’ve been there too.
Sacha Black
Okay, so I’m going to flip the order of the questions slightly. Just Because I think it makes sense to do the one I was going to ask last question from a patron now. Does romance always have to have a happily ever after? Can happiness be the result of the protagonist discovering a deeper level of self love and or contentment?
Kris Kennedy
Yes and yes.
There has to be a happily ever after we’re all about that. Although I will give a caveat you could be happily for now, you may see HFN. And that means happily for now that works too. But the key is for romance is that it’s emotionally optimistic in the end, and that the leads choose each other in the end in some way. So certainly you can have a protagonist who discovers a deeper level of self love and contentment and they they should hopefully That’s going to be part of their inner journey is I haven’t been being true to myself in all but before romance, it’s, I haven’t been being true to myself in all these other crappy ass romance relationships in my life, but I am real with this person. So that is where the romance ties in. Yes, you never want someone being untrue to themselves, or desperately craving a relationship. So they don’t have to deal with whatever they really have to deal with. Your protagonist has to deal with whatever they have to deal with at a personal level, but the romance is the best place for them to be and to get that self contentment to be that person who they need to be. So yeah, and you know, I think we need that emotionally optimistic, kind of ending more than ever these days. I mean, honestly, the way I see it, we are saving people here people and not just our characters, but sometimes Our readers to I people are struggling silently with so much. And they need a respite and a recharge and a reason to keep on and they need hope. And romance gives them that. Yeah,
Sacha Black
yeah, definitely. And I think this does come down to knowing your genre as well. Yeah. Happily ever after is basically the, the biggest trope in romance. It’s the it’s the unquestionable, I think. I can think of a couple of examples where I’ve read. So Jane Green, this was corr, probably 15 years ago. Now, Jane green, back then was quite a big romance writer. But the book The couple of examples, I think it was Jemima J and possibly Straight Talking, where the the women would have sort of a love triangle type situation. But actually, the story was really all about the women in finding themselves and being comfortable with themselves. But where that happened It then brings the genre into sort of this halfway between women’s lit and romance. So it’s about knowing where you’re positioning, you could write whatever the bloody hell you like. But just make sure you know how you’re going to market it. Because if it is cross genre, is there a cost of genre market for you? And yes, and if there isn’t, maybe it’s just a story you’re writing for you and there’s nothing wrong with that. But if you are going to go against tropes that are so popular in genre, you know, just make sure you that you know that there is an audience out there.
Kris Kennedy
I think that is really great input and you’re right, you can straddle these genres and then it may be difficult to sell it, it just may it might also break out. Um, but yeah, it’s it’s just sort of knowing what you’re doing reading in the genres thinking about how you’re going to market it because if, if the romance isn’t primary, and it doesn’t end on that romance optimistic note, um, romance readers are not going to like it but others might love it. So yeah
Sacha Black
Okay, so let’s let’s change the subject now what is working for marketing romance right now?
Kris Kennedy
I have no idea. Seriously. Honestly, I you know, scammers have overrun Amazon. They’re spending huge amounts of money advertising, you know, five, six figures a month in ads. And I’m just not sure how people can compete. Aside from writing a fabulous insanely romantic book or insanely mysterious book or thriller book with great characters who arc and transform. I mean, the good news is the best advertising that you’ll ever get is to write a great story, and then another, another, you build your backlist and you’ll find your readers. But, um, but it’s hard to do from a marketing standpoint. And that, unfortunately is not my strength at all. Yeah.
Sacha Black
Okay, this is The Rebel Author podcast. So tell me about the time you unleash your inner rebel?
Kris Kennedy
Well, you know, I mean, I would say, it’s the summit that I did, um, you know, the romance writer summit that’s going on now, but by the time this airs, it will be over, although people will still be able to purchase the videos. Um, and that was it was insanely hard for me, not just the technical end of things, but emotionally I had to do so many things that were hard for me personally, that, you know, sort of stepping out of the shadows. I mean, literally, I’m in every video. Oh, and then yeah, then there’s the technical end.
Um, but it’s also been, I think, because it was so difficult. It was also so fabulous, I guess kind of like an arc for a character in our book, to, you know, you do the hard thing. And, you know, sometimes it pays off in real life. My vision was to get a bunch of crafts people together and do nothing but talk about story craft. And that’s what we did. And I today, although again, sorry, guys, it will be nice. You can cut this out if you need to. But we have a video game writer who worked on writing on the Game of Thrones and walking dead video games. And we just talked about storytelling in games. Um, it’s just is just awesome. And then to be able to share all that with a bunch of other writers who are serious about their craft. And that’s just that’s what they’re thinking about. How do I become better, a better storyteller. It just is really incredibly awesome.
Sacha Black
And I think the wonderful thing about that I always think that if you if you aren’t… No… Yes, if you aren’t out of your comfort zone, then you aren’t growing, you aren’t learning or developing. And if you aren’t changing as a person, then then you’re stagnating. So you know, I think it’s so important to to put you know, to push yourself and to can you get with us to continue to learn and and even doing this podcast? There were tears before I started this podcast, I wanted to do it for so so bloody long. And it was it was the technical side I didn’t want to do and I threw it out of the pram and then I pulled up my big girl panties and I sucked it up Princess, you know? You just have to push yourself out of that comfort zone. Because I am so proud and I am so glad because I get to talk to amazing people and learn so many amazing things. Even though I have to editing now.
Kris Kennedy
Really though, what you’re saying is true. It’s like we are our characters, right? I mean, really, because at any moment, we’re all facing tasks or challenges things. We’re avoiding beliefs or emotions that maybe aren’t serving us. And then the question is, and what am I going to do about it? If I want this thing, this story goal, what am I going to do about?
Sacha Black
So for anybody listening, if you’ve been putting off that thing. Go do it. You’ve been told. I know you have a thing. Go do that thing.
Kris Kennedy
Yes.
Sacha Black
Okay, so tell readers where they can find out more about you your books. I will obviously include a link to the summit. Not conference call this summit.
Kris Kennedy
Okay, you can call it a conference.
Sacha Black
Why can everybody find out more about you?
Kris Kennedy
Well, my author website is kriskennedy.net, not calm, it’s a net. And it’s Kris K R I S, and the romancewriterssummit.com. And my writing course website which is still under construction, um, it’s a work in progress, but that is romancewritinglab.com. So but even though the website is honestly, it’s just a placeholder page that I made and guys really design is just not my thing. Um, you can still access the sign up for the newsletter through that and it’s just a free writing tips newsletter that I sent out at extremely random times because I am a terribly organized person, I just, it’s terrible, but I send out writing tips. So sometimes it’s, you know, just like a paragraph of hey, give this a try. And other times I’m, you know, breaking something down in more depth, but it’s all craft. So you can sign up for that. At the romance writing lab website
Sacha Black
Amazing. Thank you so thank you to all of the patrons supporting the show. If you would like to get early access to all of the episodes, you can do so by going to www.patreon.com/SachaBlack and that is Sacha with a C. Thank you very much for listening. Thank you to Kris for your time today and your amazing tips that I have to do so much editing on Sacha Black. You’re listening to Kris Kennedy and this was The Rebel Author Podcast.
